SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Probably best to leave people the fuck alone instead of using them as photo opportunites then.
Manchester Arena incident - many reported dead
- Thread starter DaveCinzano
- Start date
Probably best to leave people the fuck alone instead of using them as photo opportunites then.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I'm sorry I reacted as I did and would prefer it if you stayed on thread. I shouldn't have been so touchy but would rather I was upset than you left.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Do you ever show approval of anything anyone else has done?
extra dry
Happy to be here
As we all know, some things are just best NOT said or broadcast.
Queenie asks/says... 'You were able to enjoy the concert before at least?
What kind of question is that?
Survivor...nah mam, it was shit I want a refund.
Not wrong though, is he
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
Yeah, but it'll play as
A) Corbyn doesn't sport are troops;
B) it was Labour wot done Iraq;
C) Corbyn soft on terror, now is not the time to weaken our resolve;
D) Corbyn loves terrorists, the dirty hypocrite. Here's a picture of him with bad people;
D) Corbyn cynically using dead kids to boost his campaign while Teresa is just doing her job.
Plus quotes will be taken out of context in the usual way.
Brave of him to give it a try.
A) Corbyn doesn't sport are troops;
B) it was Labour wot done Iraq;
C) Corbyn soft on terror, now is not the time to weaken our resolve;
D) Corbyn loves terrorists, the dirty hypocrite. Here's a picture of him with bad people;
D) Corbyn cynically using dead kids to boost his campaign while Teresa is just doing her job.
Plus quotes will be taken out of context in the usual way.
Brave of him to give it a try.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Interesting article in the Telegraph which inevitably raises questions as to what happended to the information recieved and the referral to the Prevent programme
Security services missed five opportunities to stop the Manchester bomber http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/24/security-services-missed-five-opportunities-stop-manchester/
Security services missed five opportunities to stop the Manchester bomber http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/24/security-services-missed-five-opportunities-stop-manchester/
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
A ringing endorsement
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
If the security services were indeed complicit in older family members travelling to Libya to help in overthrowing Gaddafi, then the family might have been flagged such that the cops thought it inappropriate to investigate a too closely.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
This was raised by a member of the public on Questions Time last night. Dimbleby immediately moved the debate away from it and back to Prevent.
No doubt there is a queasiness about this at the BBC given May would have been Home Secretary at the time that these 5 warnings were made.
She would also have been Home Secretary when the terrorist and others returned from fighting alongside Libyan Islamic militants and were allowed back into the UK with no control order or questions asked.
For sections of the left - see Burnham - pursuing the Tories on this is also problematic as it directly undermines their narrative that these are random acts and that essentially these things just happen and in no way reflect a set of ideas that have agency in a section of the Muslim community.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Given that Abedi and others would have returned to the UK with knowledge of weapons, making IEDs and suicide vests - plus a deeepened ideological commitment to the Islamist cause - how would you have addressed it
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
All I'm finding interesting is the bleating about why he/others was allowed to go to leave for Libya/given his passport back by the people who would be the first to scream if he'd had his passport removed.
It's obviously a really difficult thing to manage, and the fact that apparently only 7 people are on the TPIM orders suggests they're not used lightly.
nuffsaid
But this goes up to 11
That is very debatable. An earlier post in this thread by Tecniq shared this link We need to talk about what inspired Salman Abedi's attack on Manchester showing where the roots of Islamic extremism come from and how the West are happy to ignore them so as not to damage relations with Saudi Arabia.
On R4 'Today' this morning it was mentioned that trying to say our foreign policy is directly related to resultant suicide bombings here is refuted as the West were not at war in the Mideast when 911 happened. But I would argue against that as you can take the conflict back further, the attacks on the USS Cole, the Gulf War of the early 90s and ultimately the Mujahideen being created and trained by the CIA to fight the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. The West meddles and cares not the outcomes.
To me it feels like having a hornets nest in a tree at the bottom of the garden and the foreign wars are us kicking the tree. So we could stop kicking the tree but if Wahhabism was going to unleash this mindset anyway, then the hornets nest was always going to be there anyway. Do you ignore it, or try to remove it?
Yesterday's C4 news showed how fundamentalist Islamic belief is now affecting the law in Indonesia where homosexuals were dragged from their bed by vigilantes, tried without defence and publicly caned. Not sure how any western intervention led to this.
mikey mikey
Active Member
Rudd seems to be saying somethiing very familiar...
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i doubt he'd have returned with a knowledge of making suicide vests - d'you think they have a great libyan sewing bee?
have you any of your actual evidence that he would have returned with a knowledge of making ieds and suicide vests: or is it, as i suspect, mere conjecture?
mikey mikey
Active Member
This is why we can't have nice things
1927
Funnier than he thinks he is.
A better metaphor would be us introducing a new type of bees to kill the hornets, which then turn out to be killer bees that then attack us!
As we all know, some things are just best NOT said or broadcast.
Queenie asks/says... 'You were able to enjoy the concert before at least?
What kind of question is that?
Yes ma'am, made it all worthwhile, mustn't grumble.
mikey mikey
Active Member
mikey mikey
Active Member
eoin_k
Lawyer's fees, beetroot and music
Western intervention didn't lead to it directly, but it contributed to the context. Leave aside the fact that an ideology which Western powers have propped up in other parts of the world for reasons of political expediency, can cross national borders. Leave aside the failure of liberal democracy and 'C' Communism, both of which have roots in the West, to meet the needs of local people, contributing to the vacuum that this poison fills.
1600-1800 - Colonial period of the Dutch East Indies Company
1800-1940s - Colonial period of the Dutch State
1940s - Japanese occupation
1945-1960's - Sukarno regime first independent government deposed by a CIA-backed coup
1960s-1990s - US supported Suharto regime
2000s-> ??? I haven't done my homework, but I'm sure twenty-first-century neo-liberalisms has been a blast so far.
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elbows
Well-Known Member
Indeed the Libyan conflict was mostly fought with conventional weapons, albeit ones often mounted onto vehicles in slightly unconventional ways.
Well, yeah, but...
They were only supposed to kill Gaddafi and his mates - you know the ones 'we' wanted them to kill. Can't seem to follow the script these boys.
Who could have possibly forseen that fundamentalist nutjobs, armed, trained and facilitated by britain and the US would then bite the hand that fed them? Never happened before, has it?
I mean that nice Mr Bin Laden and his friends that the West trained, armed and eulogised for fighting the Red Menace in Afghnaistan... they turned out OK, didn't they?
Oh.
elbows
Well-Known Member
I should probably add that this picture changes slightly if he was in Libya during later phases of violence. IS foothold in Libya was relatively weak compared to some other countries but there are a bewildering array of Islamists with various different masters. Lots of them are involved with more conventional forms of fighting but suicide attacks are not completely unheard of in a couple of hotspots in Libya. Quality of information very low as usual for Libya though.
elbows
Well-Known Member
For example this is how the BBC reported the 'first' suicide attack in Libya - December 2013.
Libya's first suicide attack kills seven near Benghazi - BBC News
Libya's first suicide attack kills seven near Benghazi - BBC News
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Their proxies in Norniron seem to have been kept on-side once they were stood down.
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