Manchester Arena incident - many reported dead

[UrbaneFox]

Oh Christ, there's no need for the ES to use that fucking picture.

I blame the Editor.

 

[YouSir]

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[Smokeandsteam]

I've found myself wondering if the audience and the nature of the performance - vaguely sexualised post-disney pop for (pre)teens - somehow contributed to the perpetrators rationale by offending their puritanism. A reference to the venue as 'shameless' in Daesh's statement suggested as much, but then went on to describe the children they've killed as 'crusaders', which just leaves me feeling ridiculous for even trying to understand their world view.

I've wondered also about why that particular gig was targeted.

The audience going to the gig in Birmingham last week was young kids/kids with their parents, they were overwhelmingly working class and multi racial.

Just as gay men offended the warped sensibilities of the murderer in Miami last year you do have to consider if it was the idea of young people, presumably including Muslim youth, coming together to listen to 'sexualised' music was the reason this gig was picked.

As you say, trying to understand the motives of someone who has drifted so far from any basic system of moral values that they can do something so barbaric is probably pointless but their Stone Age puritanism and desire to keep 'their' community untainted by western culture would in their eyes make this a legitimate target

 

[Pickman's model]

I've wondered also about why that particular gig was targeted.

The audience going to the gig in Birmingham last week was young kids/kids with their parents, they were overwhelmingly working class and multi racial.

Just as gay men offended the warped sensibilities of the murderer in Miami last year you do have to consider if it was the idea of young people, presumably including Muslim youth, coming together to listen to 'sexualised' music was the reason this gig was picked.

As you say, trying to understand the motives of someone who has drifted so far from any basic system of moral values that they can do something so barbaric is probably pointless but their Stone Age puritanism and desire to keep 'their' community untainted by western culture would in their eyes make this a legitimate target

Yeh. It's perhaps better if you see this for what it is, a provocation, than simply an end in itself. Don't know why you bring in stone age puritanism and untainted communities when they have no bearing on the matter at hand. George Bush's they hate us for our freedom in a fresh bottle.

 

[Calamity1971]

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[bimble]

There are people shouting about how this should be seen as a targeted attack on young women (because of the singer's fanbase). It's not helpful that stuff, probably could've been any concert or any crowded place.

 

[YouSir]

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[Pickman's model]

There are people shouting about how this should be seen as a targeted attack on young women (because of the singer's fanbase). It's not helpful that stuff, probably could've been any concert or any crowded place.

Yeh. Well it almost certainly was targeted on young women as the easiest way to provoke the reaction they desire. Yeh, misogyny will have been part of the motivation, but as I say, the attack will have sought to produce a response.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes. And if you confuse my comment for any disrespect, disdain or indifference towards the lost or those grieving for them then fuck off.

Smacks of stupidity mind

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I've wondered also about why that particular gig was targeted.

The audience going to the gig in Birmingham last week was young kids/kids with their parents, they were overwhelmingly working class and multi racial.

Just as gay men offended the warped sensibilities of the murderer in Miami last year you do have to consider if it was the idea of young people, presumably including Muslim youth, coming together to listen to 'sexualised' music was the reason this gig was picked.

As you say, trying to understand the motives of someone who has drifted so far from any basic system of moral values that they can do something so barbaric is probably pointless but their Stone Age puritanism and desire to keep 'their' community untainted by western culture would in their eyes make this a legitimate target

Yeh. It's perhaps better if you see this for what it is, a provocation, than simply an end in itself. Don't know why you bring in stone age puritanism and untainted communities when they have no bearing on the matter at hand. George Bush's they hate us for our freedom in a fresh bottle.

Dunno if you watched this the other day: Isis: The Origins of Violence - On Demand - All 4

Hard going, but opens eyes.

 

[YouSir]

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[hot air baboon]

there was a screenshot of some sort of ISIS statement with some shit about "the shameless arena" being targeted but don't feel inclined to give it thread room

 

[DotCommunist]

There are people shouting about how this should be seen as a targeted attack on young women (because of the singer's fanbase). It's not helpful that stuff, probably could've been any concert or any crowded place.

part of the youth aspect of the victims gets people reaching for explanations. With grownups well, its tragic but we all know risks even if we don't ever think its going to be me or my mum or my mate. Somewhere in the back of your head you think about risks and you certainly understand mortality will come. thats what the delivery man kept saying this morning, 'kids..just kids..how could they know?'. I suppose we'll never get any sense of why this gig cos the rotten prick blew himself up as well but I don't think targetting children, females and males, was a coincidence. Maybe a target of opportunity. Who can say.

 

[Pickman's model]

Dunno if you watched this the other day: Isis: The Origins of Violence - On Demand - All 4

Hard going, but opens eyes.

Yeh. Going all neolithick seems imo to detract from rather than add to the discussion. Btw, kilcullen's blood year well worth a read

 

[Ranbay]

Have we had @janice4brexit tweets yet? She's calling for the death penalty to be brought back for suiced bombers........

 

[Calamity1971]

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[Bahnhof Strasse]

Yeh. Going all neolithick seems imo to detract from rather than add to the discussion. Btw, kilcullen's blood year well worth a read

Think will give it all a miss tonight, thanks all the same!

 

[hot air baboon]

ever since that Taliban school attack I've had a lurking dread of something similar here - let alone Beslan - this is hardly a new threshold being crossed

 

[Pickman's model]

Have we had @janice4brexit tweets yet? She's calling for the death penalty to be brought back for suiced bombers........

 

[EastEnder]

There are people shouting about how this should be seen as a targeted attack on young women (because of the singer's fanbase). It's not helpful that stuff, probably could've been any concert or any crowded place.

Indeed. I think it's probably crediting the perpetrator with an unwarranted degree of sophistication to assume their target was anything more than a random bunch of innocent people.

 

[bimble]

Yeah, trying to guess at why this particular concert is just not going to yield anything useful i think.
Seems the bloke who blew himself up was 22. Who knows maybe he'd watched lots of Ariane Grande's sexy videos on youtube (I'd never heard of her till today).

 

[Cheesypoof]

So sad. I met a bunch of teenyboppers off to the 3Arena in Dublin on Saturday all dressed up and I couldnt help asking them who was performing. 'Ariana Grande!' they shrieked in excitement. I asked if she was a bit like Rhianna, and they said yes but better. I wished them a great night. It's horrific to think of innocent kids like this and their families being killed or injured in such an attack.

 

[Dr. Furface]

It has been revealed that he was a Manchester United fan

Yeah right. What sort of fan would kill himself 2 days before his team is playing in a European final? Some fucking fan!

Though clearly he was a different kind of fanatic.

 

[hot air baboon]

maybe he'd watched lots of Ariane Grande's sexy videos on youtube (I'd never heard of her till today).

things that make you feel old thread ----->

 

[Magnus McGinty]

(I'd never heard of her till today).

Me neither.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Police confirmed the 22-year-old’s identity after officials in the United States passed it to news reporters, apparently against the wishes of the police and security services in the UK.

Cunning

Manchester Arena attacker named as Salman Ramadan Abedi

 

[Cid]

There are people shouting about how this should be seen as a targeted attack on young women (because of the singer's fanbase). It's not helpful that stuff, probably could've been any concert or any crowded place.

Indeed. I think it's probably crediting the perpetrator with an unwarranted degree of sophistication to assume their target was anything more than a random bunch of innocent people.

So don't speculate. Unless you're going to speculate it was an idiot who could have picked anywhere, that's fine.

 

[hot air baboon]

they've got form for blowing UK operations :

Airliner bomb trial: George W. Bush took decision that triggered arrests

 

[not-bono-ever]

Indeed. I think it's probably crediting the perpetrator with an unwarranted degree of sophistication to assume their target was anything more than a random bunch of innocent people.

and he lived locally.

 

[Wookey]

Just attended the vigil in St Albert's Square - the poem This Is The Place was read out by Longfella. It was quite a moment.