Manchester Arena incident - many reported dead

[Tom A]

See it different, I think there was a bit of romantic sympathy for AQ when it started kicking off which allowed the nutter elements to ferment, even IS when the Syria started off, but I'm getting a vibe of recognition that this shower is more of a problem than a solution to anything. The far right will be looking through the kaleidoscope more darkly, but they are just about to fall in on themselves due to 'shock' election after the referendum. Or are you really thinking last night is going to win UKIP et al seats?

UKIP are a spent force (although I am certainly something nastier is waiting in the wings in the forthcoming years), the real danger is the Tories get strongly reelected on a "clamping down on terrorists by removing everyone's civil liberties" ticket, and the usual suspects will be all too ready to stir up bigotry regardless of how well they do electorally.

If Daesh and the ideas that drive Daesh are to be beaten it's going to take the assistance of Muslims that are opposed to jihadism, though - but that's going to require dialogue rather than one-way demands.

 

[LiamO]

Indeed - either they're not really Muslim/the wrong kind of Muslim and thus fair game, or they are among the martyrs and now in paradise.

The middle east and Afghanistan are littered with the corpses of hundreds of thousands of them.

 

[Wilf]

Nasty fucking scum. There appears to be some strategy with this also:

Most of the parties will be working out how to play this murderous tragedy, ukip and tories most obviously. To be honest, I'd guess Labour will also have had some members of the team working out how to respond to the digs and attacks that will be directed towards them. That would be understandable, but also adds up to playing politics with horror.

 

[aqua]

I've actually been got by this. Normally pretty bloody stoic about these kinds of things, even when much closer to me personally, 7/7. But, fuck sakes, this is just so fucking awful I'm losing it and going to pieces a bit.

Fucking wanker.

This is how I feel tbh. I've cried more over this today that I thought I would.

 

[Dr. Furface]

Horrible news.

I'm sad to say that since things like this cross my mind every time I go to a gig nowadays.

Me too, although I take comfort in the idea that I doubt that most gigs I go to would be of much interest to terrorists who want to make as big an impact and generate as much publicity as they can.

After the Bataclan attack, I did wonder if they'd targeted that gig and specifically that band because of what (they thought) they represented. I imagined the perpetrators planning it and thinking 'Eagles of Death Metal? We'll show you some REAL death metal' and, without wishing to condone what they did, looking at it in that way made it seem more comprehensible - albeit in a sick way.

Last night's attack, even though thankfully fewer people were killed than on that night in Paris, somehow seems a lot worse because of the type of performer and the demographic of the audience. And yet that doesn't seem right either, because at the end of the day, the victims at both events were all innocent people just out for a fun night.

 

[Tom A]

The middle east and Afghanistan are littered with the corpses of hundreds of thousands of them.

That has not escaped my attention either.

 

[editor]

The news was bloody hard to watch. I'm not ashamed to say that I cried through a large part of it. Young children. Murdered for what?

 

[8den]

How is targeting teenagers at a concert polarising? Even your average daesh sympathiser will see it as a bad move.

Because they want a "holy war" they want Christians to attack Muslim' to provoke Muslims until the whole world is at each other's throats, that's why you should ignore Hopkins et all, particularly at the moment, they're all feeding into a cycle of hate.

 

[editor]

I wish I could find some use for this raging fucking anger I have.

 

[Wilf]

This is how I feel tbh. I've cried more over this today that I thought I would.

Yeah, me too. I was filling up at work today when talking to somebody about it. Not like me at all.

 

[not-bono-ever]

Actions like these I see as the frantic flailings of a species heading towards extinction. lets hope so.

 

[not-bono-ever]

Yeah, me too. I was filling up at work today when talking to somebody about it. Not like me at all.

ditto

 

[Wilf]

Me too, although I take comfort in the idea that I doubt that most gigs I go to would be of much interest to terrorists who want to make as big an impact and generate as much publicity as they can.

After the Bataclan attack, I did wonder if they'd targeted that gig and specifically that band because of what (they thought) they represented. I imagined the perpetrators planning it and thinking 'Eagles of Death Metal? We'll show you some REAL death metal' and, without wishing to condone what they did, looking at it in that way made it seem more comprehensible - albeit in a sick way.

Last night's attack, even though thankfully fewer people were killed than on that night in Paris, somehow seems a lot worse because of the type of performer and the demographic of the audience. And yet that doesn't seem right either, because at the end of the day, the victims at both events were all innocent people just out for a fun night.

Know what you mean, in every bit of that.

 

[Nanker Phelge]

The news as bloody hard to watch. I'm not ashamed to say that I cried through a large part of it. Young children. Murdered for what?

If a bright side to this exists, then it's the way 100s of people from venue staff and security, emergency services and members of the public have pulled together to help through this horrible situation, and the speed with which they reacted.

To see people out offering lifts, and food/drink, and space in their home while not really knowing if they were putting themselves in danger is something to be applauded.

 

[gosub]

Me too, although I take comfort in the idea that I doubt that most gigs I go to would be of much interest to terrorists who want to make as big an impact and generate as much publicity as they can.

After the Bataclan attack, I did wonder if they'd targeted that gig and specifically that band because of what (they thought) they represented. I imagined the perpetrators planning it and thinking 'Eagles of Death Metal? We'll show you some REAL death metal' and, without wishing to condone what they did, looking at it in that way made it seem more comprehensible - albeit in a sick way.

Last night's attack, even though thankfully fewer people were killed than on that night in Paris, somehow seems a lot worse because of the type of performer and the demographic of the audience. And yet that doesn't seem right either, because at the end of the day, the victims at both events were all innocent people just out for a fun night.

There is an element of the same thing, not knowing Eagles of Death Metal is a piss take name, and not knowing that the end of the show isn't the end of the show, just the pause before the encores.

 

[hot air baboon]

That won't necessarily stop the (far/alt) right from tarring all Muslims with the same brush...

they don't actually need to do that though - hence the "skittles" meme...as helpfully re-posted by Donald Trump Jr.

 

[Tom A]

Daesh need to be destroyed - and destroyed in a way that does not allow for something as bad as or worse than them to take their place. This fight is on many fronts but as long as they can effectively convince people to carry out atrocities with seemingly little way for the authorities to know until it's too late no one will be totally safe from them, be they in the Western world or the Middle East.

 

[bimble]

ditto

me too. there is some comfort in knowing that lots of people are feeling like this today. Somehow thought i'd become used to it but no, which is maybe a good thing.

 

[Wilf]

Help raise £50000 to support families of those killed and injured in the Manchester Arena attack

In terms of feeling angry and upset but there being nothing you can do, this is the link Pickmans posted earlier. I'm sure there will be things people can actively do to help in future days and weeks, but bunging them a few quid probably makes me feel better.

edit: page seems to be crashing, no doubt due to the amount of traffic it's getting.

 

[xenon]

Yeah, me too. I was filling up at work today when talking to somebody about it. Not like me at all.

Yep. Normally quite good at mentally firewalling off news events I can do nothing about, try and rationalise, but just listening to LBC, on here, doing stuff around the house, fucking fuming and a bit choked up.

 

[Tom A]

me too. there is some comfort in knowing that lots of people are feeling like this today. Somehow thought i'd become used to it but no, which is maybe a good thing.

After the bloodbath in Paris I tended to just shrug whenever the latest attack occurred, barring Nice because so many were killed and because all the killer needed was to steal a bloody truck. This was true even after the Westminster attack this year. This however has taken me aback, not sure if it's because it's in my home city, the fact that children were among the victims, this being the worst terrorist attack since London in 2005 - AFAIK the greatest lost of life in any single incident since then, or a combination of the above. I just feel so lonely and helpless.

 

[Tom A]

Help raise £50000 to support families of those killed and injured in the Manchester Arena attack

In terms of feeling angry and upset but there being nothing you can do, this is the link Pickmans posted earlier. I'm sure there will be things people can actively do to help in future days and weeks, but bunging them a few quid probably makes me feel better.

Already put £20 in. I would also say you can help give blood to help the victims, but thankfully the Blood Service has all the blood required for now:

 

[eoin_k]

...
Last night's attack, even though thankfully fewer people were killed than on that night in Paris, somehow seems a lot worse because of the type of performer and the demographic of the audience. And yet that doesn't seem right either, because at the end of the day, the victims at both events were all innocent people just out for a fun night.

I've found myself wondering if the audience and the nature of the performance - vaguely sexualised post-disney pop for (pre)teens - somehow contributed to the perpetrators rationale by offending their puritanism. A reference to the venue as 'shameless' in Daesh's statement suggested as much, but then went on to describe the children they've killed as 'crusaders', which just leaves me feeling ridiculous for even trying to understand their world view.

 

[Dogsauce]

Lots of people circulating an appeal for blood at the MRI on Facebook, claiming they've run out of a particular type.

This is apparently fake, and the hospital aren't finding it helpful having lots of people show up.

I really don't get why someone would fake this.

 

[gosub]

UKIP are a spent force (although I am certainly something nastier is waiting in the wings in the forthcoming years), the real danger is the Tories get strongly reelected on a "clamping down on terrorists by removing everyone's civil liberties" ticket, and the usual suspects will be all too ready to stir up bigotry regardless of how well they do electorally.

If Daesh and the ideas that drive Daesh are to be beaten it's going to take the assistance of Muslims that are opposed to jihadism, though - but that's going to require dialogue rather than one-way demands.

Am fully expecting Paul Nuttall to have been playing drums at the gig in a couple of days time.

 

[Tom A]

Lots of people circulating an appeal for blood at the MRI on Facebook, claiming they've run out of a particular type.

This is apparently fake, and the hospital aren't finding it helpful having lots of people show up.
I really don't get why someone would fake this.

Nor me - I can understand the good intentions behind the sharing of it, but what people aim to achieve by posting the original fake bewilders me, other than someone is maliciously trying to stir up further panic.

 

[not-bono-ever]

Lots of people circulating an appeal for blood at the MRI on Facebook, claiming they've run out of a particular type.

This is apparently fake, and the hospital aren't finding it helpful having lots of people show up.

I really don't get why someone would fake this.

Cant blame people for circulating it really - whoever knowingly started it should have his eyeballs removed with a spoon

 

[Dr. Furface]

which just leaves me feeling ridiculous for even trying to understand their world view.

I know, same here. Pointless exercise.

 

[D'wards]

yeh but i suppose daesh would say either they're the wrong sort of muslim or never mind, they're in heaven now.

Yeah, to lots of them Muslim is a very narrow definition.

 

[Wilf]

Not sure whether to post this, certainly don't want a derail into discussing foreign policy, at least on this thread, at this time. But part of the depression you feel about these events relates to that. It doesn't excuse vile acts of murder - explicitly and absolutely - but this is still a psychopathic response to long terms events. Like I say, this isn't the time for debating this in terms of Bush and Blair, but it is somehow in the mix of the depression and anger you feel about what has happened.

Edit: that doesn't put it very well. Just trying to express the swirling pile of anger and sorrow you get at times like these.