Manchester Arena incident - many reported dead

[RainbowTown]

There is no such thing as 100% security. As horrible as it sounds, the likelihood of similiar atrocities occuring again are high. Whether it be next month, next year, two years, whatever. They can never be fully eradicated, only contained and managed to the best of our abilities. This, sadly, is part of the world we now live in.

 

[Kaka Tim]

police arresting people does not necessarily mean its an organised cell. If they have the name of the killer, they will be rounding up all his close associates, family etc (hence not realeasing his name). I think there were a fair few arrests after the westminster attack but they were all released within a day or so.

 

[ViolentPanda]

There was a radio report that said it was most unlikely the perpetrator (the suicide bomber) could have been working alone, as constructing a large bomb is a complex process. So the Manchester police will now be after any collaborators.

A bomb can be as simple or as complex as you care too make it. A simple explosive like black powder - which you can make at home - can still be devastating if you package it for maximum effect.

 

[ViolentPanda]

This is essentially bullshit.

Quite. Saltpetre, charcoal, sulphur. It really IS as simple or as complex as you want to make it.

 

[skyscraper101]

Horrible news.

I'm sad to say that since things like this cross my mind every time I go to a gig nowadays.

 

[ViolentPanda]

which leads you to try and make everything "very secure". Back in Belfast in the 80s and 90s, EVERY shop had doormen, checking every bag of every customer coming into the shop.

The illusion of "absolute security", and that's all it is - an illusion. We learned that in the '70s. Even if everyone is vigilant, there are ways around vigilance, an example being the bomb in the Brighton Grand, which was planted weeks before Thatcher was due to stay there.

 

[kebabking]

...black powder...

Interestingly, one of the witnesses reported a strong smell of fireworks..

Not an absolute of course, and the firework smell could come from any number of sources after an explosion in a building, but interesting all the same.

 

[Idris2002]

The illusion of "absolute security", and that's all it is - an illusion. We learned that in the '70s. Even if everyone is vigilant, there are ways around vigilance, an example being the bomb in the Brighton Grand, which was planted weeks before Thatcher was due to stay there.

The Provies were able to do that because they had a level of organization and skill sets that I don't think the beards have ever been able to match, though.

 

[xenon]

Obvious point but since people are talking about the soft targets. It's worth remembering daily city life whilst presenting abundant opportunities for such vile atrocities, they're not all that common occurrence because:

A. The security services likely do disrupt, prevent many such attacks.
B. Even assembling a relatively low tech IED requires some knowledge, covert activity and preparation, which can be thwarted by A or incompetence.
C. I'd suggest the type of character with the means, motivation and mindset to murder kids, is still relatively rare.

 

[teqniq]

Quite. Saltpetre, charcoal, sulphur. It really IS as simple or as complex as you want to make it.

Weedkiller and sugar too, but this wasn't entirely my point. The OB by making that statement are laying the ground for a public perception of a 'cell' but as I've seen on Twitter there's more than one example of bombers who've acted alone. Timothy McVeigh and Anders Breivik spring to mind. I take 8den's point that suicide bombers are not so likely to have been responsible for making the bomb though but to say it's a complex thing to do is simply not true.

 

[8den]

The illusion of "absolute security", and that's all it is - an illusion. We learned that in the '70s. Even if everyone is vigilant, there are ways around vigilance, an example being the bomb in the Brighton Grand, which was planted weeks before Thatcher was due to stay there.

Quite. I'm more worried about what measures will be brought in to make us "more secure".

It's going to be fucking odious watching Thersa May wander the hospitals offering "sympathy". Many of the survivors will face either years of recovery, or permanent disability; if May wins some of these poor kids could face ATOS assessment in a few years time.

 

[Kaka Tim]

anyone can cause random mayhem and death to the public if they don't care if they die in the process. There is no practical defence against it in terms of security procedures. You can secure a particular area - like parliament - but anywhere with a crowd? impossible.

 

[kebabking]

The Provies were able to do that because they had a level of organization and skill sets that I don't think the beards have ever been able to match, though.

I fear the grim truth is that the seriously capable beards are plying their trades in sandy places - comparing the sophistication and effectiveness of attacks in the ME to those in Europe, even the French attacks and last night, is illuminating in this regard.

We've got the fuck-wits, the bottom-third, the ones who couldn't get a plane to Syria without falling over their own shoe laces. This comforting scenario however may change when IS's temporal experiment comes to an end when Raqqa falls and they decide instead to go all AQ post-2001.

Then we may meet the real hard nuts then, and we won't enjoy the experience.

 

[eoin_k]

A bomb can be as simple or as complex as you care too make it. A simple explosive like black powder - which you can make at home - can still be devastating if you package it for maximum effect.

Or to think of it another way, an automobile is more complex than a crude bomb and even driving one requires a degree of skill, but gaining access to the necessary resources and developing the relevant skills or finding someone who already has them is less likely to attract the attention of the authorities.

The Provies were able to do that because they had a level of organization and skill sets that I don't think the beards have ever been able to match, though.

In Europe to date, but the potential fallout from Syria...

 

[Idris2002]

I fear the grim truth is that the seriously capable beards are plying their trades in sandy places - comparing the sophistication and effectiveness of attacks in the ME to those in Europe, even the French attacks and last night, is illuminating in this regard.

We've got the fuck-wits, the bottom-third, the ones who couldn't get a plane to Syria without falling over their own shoe laces. This comforting scenario however may change when IS's temporal experiment comes to an end when Raqqa falls and they decide instead to go all AQ post-2001.

Then we may meet the real hard nuts then, and we won't enjoy the experience.

The hard nut fish will still need water to swim in, though. They may find things a bit too arid for their liking (hey, if you know a better straw, you should clutch at it).

 

[Idris2002]

The Irish Times appears to have replaced its hoomin staff with a bunch of lolcats:

 

[ViolentPanda]

Quite. I'm more worried about what measures will be brought in to make us "more secure".

The "false flag" idiots have been really pissing me off on this subject. Most of them don't grasp that a government doesn't need to stage an atrocity, merely to take advantage when one happens, and we can be absolutely assured that May and her cabinet will take FULL advantage of this. Politically, I expect reminders of Corbyn's (fleeting) past associations to be stepped up ten-fold, and the term "soft on terrorism to be chucked around. I can only hope that the term "trying to build a victory on the bodies of dead children" gets used in reply.

It's going to be fucking odious watching Thersa May wander the hospitals offering "sympathy". Many of the survivors will face either years of recovery, or permanent disability if May wins some of these poor kids could face ATOS assessment in a few years time.

"Sympathy" is about right. Chatting with some fellow psych post-grads a couple of weeks ago, we'd all of us noted that May's "body language" continually betrays her as acting out a role - she doesn't believe most of what she says, and her defensive body language - including that shaking of the head she tries so hard to suppress - gives that away. As I said then, give me an honest psychopath like Thatcher, who actually believed the shit she spouted, any day. Psychopathy is to be preferred over the sort of opportunistic role-playing that May engages in.[/QUOTE]

 

[Tom A]

 

[Dogsauce]

As it ever was.

 

[likesfish]

There's apprantly about 3000 beards on the list so not a very big sea to swim in for anyone of importance

 

[2hats]

I fear the grim truth is that the seriously capable beards are plying their trades in sandy places - comparing the sophistication and effectiveness of attacks in the ME to those in Europe, even the French attacks and last night, is illuminating in this regard.

This is essentially what is underneath the cabin electronics device ban.

Manchester - “So called Islamic State claiming responsibility” - BBC.

 

[editor]

View attachment 107453

As it ever was.

That's fucking dreadful and a reflection on the depths that rolling 24 hour news channels have to plumb. For example...

The NUJ should expel members who act with such a lack of morality.

 

[Idris2002]

I fear the grim truth is that the seriously capable beards are plying their trades in sandy places - comparing the sophistication and effectiveness of attacks in the ME to those in Europe, even the French attacks and last night, is illuminating in this regard.

We've got the fuck-wits, the bottom-third, the ones who couldn't get a plane to Syria without falling over their own shoe laces. This comforting scenario however may change when IS's temporal experiment comes to an end when Raqqa falls and they decide instead to go all AQ post-2001.

Then we may meet the real hard nuts then, and we won't enjoy the experience.

Also, when the bottom finally falls out of the Daesh phenomenon, they will need to reorient themselves first and foremost as an underground mafia in Iraq and Syria, and they will have lost their hardest fighters in places like Mosul (look, that's a clutchable straw too).

 

[Idris2002]

There's apprantly about 3000 beards on the list so not a very big sea to swim in for anyone of importance

I remember someone in Belfast (I'll have to say no more, as I don't want to out anyone) saying that in the old days people in West Belfast would leave their front doors unlocked at night, so that volunteers running from your lot would be able to escape. This person was telling me this to highlight the contrast between then and now: by the time I heard this story, everyone in WB was keeping their front doors firmly locked at night.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Arndale centre being evacuated. Hope it isn't anything else

Evening News has definitely shown its better side in recent hours, Arndale timeline here:

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ter-arndale-shopping-centre-evacuated-1307795

I'm a bit suprised it was open at all, it's literally a minute walk from Victoria at the closest point. Evening News now reporting police asking people to stay out of city centre altogether. I don't know how anyone could work there today, or be expected to. It's a much much smaller area than (say) London.

 

[D'wards]

At work they showed us this Jihadist magazine called Inspire - it had instructions on how to make a nail bomb - its shockingly simple - with an afternoon's shopping and afternoon's prep most people could knock one up of devastating power.

 

[teqniq]

...Manchester - “So called Islamic State claiming responsibility” - BBC.

This was pretty much bound to happen whether they are actually responsible or not.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

cops have identified the killer but have not released the name yet.

If the prime suspect is caught and charged I sincerely hope (against hope) that media won't essentially blur into playing a part in terror publicity by plastering the face all over the worlds screens. Sooner or later we have to learn some lessons as, to their credit, many in the US have learned regarding spree shootings.

Some interesting links here


Reporting Terrorism: How Reckless Media Can Make Matters Worse - Ethical Journalism Network

http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0024/002470/247074E.pdf

 

[spanglechick]

If the prime suspect is caught and charged I sincerely hope (against hope) that media won't essentially blur into playing a part in terror publicity by plastering the face all over the worlds screens. Sooner or later we have to learn some lessons as, to their credit, many in the US have learned regarding spree shootings.

Some interesting links here


Reporting Terrorism: How Reckless Media Can Make Matters Worse - Ethical Journalism Network

http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0024/002470/247074E.pdf

He won't be charged. He's dead.

 

[Tom A]

It's official, Daesh claim responsibility, as predicted: