Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 vanishes without trace

[Minnie_the_Minx]

It has often been described as like trying to drink from a fire hose.

Don't they have some kind of filter to extract the info they need?

 

[Barking_Mad]

No truth in the rumours 5 passengers did not board

It pays to be unorganized.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Straits of Malacca - very busy shipping lane.

 

[Pickman's model]

It has often been described as like trying to drink from a fire hose.

it's easy enough, you just don't turn the water all the way up

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Straits of Malacca - very busy shipping lane.

But still, and I have absolutely no idea when shown a map, anything about distances, but Pulau Perak looked to be (from the last link you put up), between Langkawi and Penang, but much further out (about the same distance from Penang to Langkawi but westbound if that makes sense). So, if it takes a ferry little over an hour between Langkawi and Penang, then (and I assume this would depend on tides/direction etc.) Pulau Perak may be at least an hour to the west of Langkawi and Penang (as viewed on the map), but NOT as far west as the main shipping lane, meaning it's possible even the ships could miss stuff (although you'd expect debris to have floated).

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Here's Pulau Perak (marked with red dot), seemingly pretty middle(ish) of Pulau Langkawi and Pulau Penang, but still quite a distance from the shipping lane

 

[Barking_Mad]

Pulau Perak is roughly 77 'ordinary' miles in a straight line from Langkawi.

http://www.daftlogic.com/projects-google-maps-distance-calculator.htm

Shipping lanes roughly 60 miles away.

 

[editor]

What the hell is this all about?

Relatives of passengers aboard the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 claimed that they were able to call cell phones of their loves ones, according to media reports.

The Washington Post said that the families of some of the 239 people onboard the missing Boeing 777 claimed to have heard the mobile ringtones.

"In some cases, the relatives could see them active online through a local Chinese networking site called QQ," the Post reported.

The eerie development comes even as Malaysian authorities described MH370's disappearance an unprecedented mystery.

One man told the Washington Post that his brother-in-law's QQ account indicated that he was online.

Frustratingly for those desperate for some news or sign, messages have gone unanswered and calls were not picked up.

Search and rescue (SAR) operation involving 10 countries has so far failed to find any trace of the missing airliner.

Britain's Daily Mail reported that the phantom phone calls and online presence had set off a new level of hysteria among relatives and next-of-kin, most of whom have spent three days cooped up at a Beijing Hotel waiting for news on the missing plane.

MAS officials in Beijing have been told repeatedly about the QQ accounts and ringing telephone calls, and relatives are hoping that SAR forces will be able to triangulate the GPS signals of the phones to locate their loved ones.

Bian Liangwei, sister of one of the passengers aboard MH370, claimed that she was able to reach her elder brother's phone.

"This morning, around 11:40am, I called my older brother's number twice, and I got the ringing tone," she told the International Business Times.

At 2pm, Bian called again and again heard its ring tone.

"If I could get through, the police could locate the position, and there is a chance he could still be alive," she said.

However, at a press conference in Beijing, MAS spokesman Ignatius Ong said one of the numbers provided to the airline's head office in Kuala Lumpur had failed to get through.

"I myself have called the number five times while the airline's command centre also called the number. We got no answering tone," Ong said.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/phones-mh3...-accounts-active-claim-094630904.html#K9o3HuX

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

In fact, looking at that shipping radar website, Pulau Perak seems to be almost twice the distance from Langkawi to Penang as Langkawi to Penang are to each other, so maybe as much as 2 hours out from either island.

Who's good at understanding maps 'cos I'm not

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

What the hell is this all about?

Mobile phones do that. It's being reported everywhere and is quite normal apparently. There's a long explanation of how it works on various websites, but can't remember the names, but Daily Mail has a pretty extensive explanation

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Pulau Perak is roughly 77 'ordinary' miles in a straight line from Langkawi.

http://www.daftlogic.com/projects-google-maps-distance-calculator.htm

Shipping lanes roughly 60 miles away.

Ah right, posted last post before you'd put that up. Cheers

So, shipping lanes probably a few hours (by boat) from mainland Malaysia then (bearing in mind distance from Perak to Langkawi/Penang and distance from Langkawi/Penang to mainland)?

Actually, the ferry between Penang and Langkawi is nearer 3 hours! Don't remember it being that long

There' some pretty rough waters there though, as we discovered when our ferry got caught up for an hour in fishing nets

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

More about the mobile phone situation from the DM for those who don't want to click links to DM

WHY ARE THE PASSENGERS' PHONES STILL RINGING?
After three days, wouldn’t the phone batteries be dead by now?

Not necessarily. Smartphones are renowned for their poor battery life and will typically last up to around 24 hours. But the batteries of older phones can last considerably longer.

For example, the Nokia 100 boasts a standby battery life of a staggering 35 days. Smartphone batteries can also last longer if the handset isn’t being used, and especially if the phone is in Flight Mode.

However, if the phone is in Flight Mode, it switches off all wireless activity meaning calls wouldn’t be able to connect, effectively ruling out this theory.

If the phone batteries are dead, wouldn’t the call go straight to voicemail?

In a word, yes. However, the process of sending the call to voicemail can differ depending on the service provider.

For example, the majority of phones will go straight to voicemail, or callers will get an out of service message if voicemail hasn’t been set up.

This will occur even if the phone is underwater, or not near a cell signal.

However, some service providers will ring once or twice before the phone goes to voicemail, or cut off. This may explain the reports that claimed phones rang before seeming to hang up.

Some reports claim the phones are just ringing and ringing though. How is this possible?

Telecoms expert Alan Spencer told MailOnline that if the phones are really ringing, they can categorically not be under the sea.

He added that the phones will only be ringing if they are ‘switched on, not in water, the battery is charged, and [they are] near a mobile cell site.’

This means that if the phones are genuinely ringing, the plane needs to have landed on land – not in the sea – and be in a location where there is cell service, rather than landing in the middle of a jungle, for example.

Why can’t network operators locate the phones?

A number of family members have asked the network operators why they can’t use the phone’s signal to locate the missing people.

Professor William Webb, a Fellow of the Royal Academy of Engineering, told MailOnline: ‘The phones definitely won't be working. They'll be underwater, out of coverage and by this time out of battery.

‘So there's absolutely no way they could be used for triangulation.

‘As to why they are ‘ringing’ it'll be the same as if they were out of coverage - in some cases it may ring before going to voicemail.’

What about the T3212 timer I’ve read about?

The T3212 is a timer that causes a phone to periodically send a message to the network saying where it is.

But Professor Webb said this only works when the phone is turned on and it is in coverage. It won't work when the battery is dead.


What about reports that passengers are appearing online, on the QQ social network?

When people sign into social networks including QQ, as well as Facebook, they appear online.

This is the case whether they’ve signed in on a phone, tablet, PC, and laptop.

if missing passengers are shown as online, they may not be using the service on their phone. Instead they may still be logged in on another device.

If this other device shuts down or goes into standby, however, or there is a long period of inactivity, the social network will log them out, which may explain why some accounts went from online to offline over a period of three days.

 

[T & P]

Mobile phones do that. It's being reported everywhere and is quite normal apparently. There's a long explanation of how it works on various websites, but can't remember the names, but Daily Mail has a pretty extensive explanation

Well, They would say that, wouldn't They?

 

[Barking_Mad]

Interesting.

Has anyone considered if the below FAA Airworthiness Directive could be a clue the MH370 investigation?

A November 2013 FAA Airworthiness Directive for the 777

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2013-09-26/html/2013-23456.htm

SUMMARY: We propose to adopt a new airworthiness directive (AD) for

certain The Boeing Company Model 777 airplanes. This proposed AD was

prompted by a report of cracking in the fuselage skin underneath the

satellite communication (SATCOM) antenna adapter. This proposed AD

would require repetitive inspections of the visible fuselage skin and

doubler if installed, for cracking, corrosion, and any indication of

contact of a certain fastener to a bonding jumper, and repair if

necessary. We are proposing this AD to detect and correct cracking and

corrosion in the fuselage skin, which could lead to rapid decompression

and loss of structural integrity of the airplane.

Summary: It’s plausible that a fuselage section near the SATCOM antenna adapter failed, disabling satellite based - GPS, ACARS, and ADS-B/C - communications, and leading to a slow decompression that left all occupants unconscious. If such decompression left the aircraft intact, then the autopilot would have flown the planned route or otherwise maintained its heading/altitude until fuel exhaustion.

A slow decompression (e.g. from a golfball-sized hole) would have gradually impaired and confused the pilots before cabin altitude (pressure) warnings sounded.

Chain of events:

• Likely fuselage failure near SATCOM antenna adapter, disabling some or all of GPS, ACARS, ADS-B, and ADS-C antennas and systems.
• Thus, only primary radars would detect the plane. Primary radar range is usually less than 100nm, and is generally ineffective at high altitudes.

If the decompression was slow enough, it’s possible the pilots did not realize to put on oxygen masks until it was too late. (See Helios 522)

• Also explains why another Pilot thirty minutes ahead heard “mumbling” from MH370 pilots.
• (VHF comms would be unaffected by SATCOM equipment failure.)

With incapacitated pilots, the 777 would continue to fly on Autopilot - programmed to maintain cruise altitude and follow the programmed route.

Other thoughts:

• The plane was equipped with cellular communication hardware, supplied by AeroMobile, to provide GSM services via satellite. However this is an aftermarket product; it’s not connected through SATCOM (as far as I know).
• This explains why 19 families signed a statement alleging they were able to call the MH370 passengers and get their phones to ring, but with no response.
• When Malaysian Airlines tried to call the phone numbers a day later, the phones did not ring. By this time, fuel would have been exhausted.

Note: 777 Passenger Oxygen masks do not deploy until cabin altitude reaches 13,500. Passengers were likely already unconscious by then, if it was a slow decompression. No confirmed debris has been found anywhere near the search area, consistent with the plane having flown for hours after it lost radar contact.

Conclusion:

This was likely not an “explosive decompression” or “inflight disintegration.” This was likely a slow decompression that gradually deprived all crew/passengers of oxygen, leaving the autopilot to continue along the route autonomously.

The aircraft may be at the floor of the East China Sea, Sea of Japan, or the Pacific Ocean thousands of miles northeast from the current search zone.

http://mh370lost.tumblr.com/?og=1

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Interesting.






http://mh370lost.tumblr.com/?og=1

Yes, especially regarding the slow decompression which could indicate it creeping up on them hence the apparent mumbling as reported by the Japanese

 

[2hats]

Interesting.

http://mh370lost.tumblr.com/?og=1

That's one possibility though if the Malaysian primary radar and eye witness reports have any validity one would have to factor in a (possibly) disoriented crew making some sort of attempt to return to the KL area and perhaps trying to fly to and then south along the western coast (as a point of reference in the absence of adequate navigational input) as it would appear (again from reports - how much faith can we put in them?) they deviated from the preplanned flightplan. They may have dialled in alternate autopilot settings of course and then become incapacitated.

But, if they were flying relatively low (as per eye witness reports) then it would make sense that they had dropped to around 10kft or just under and this would have alleviated much/all of the effects of hypoxia and the crew would have been in a better position to troubleshoot (flight crew should, if I recall correctly, have a separate oxygen supply of some tens of minutes plus an alarm should be chiming away if the cabin equivalent altitude exceeds about 10kft). Note cruising at this lower height would also substantially reduce their range to empty. The same reports describe bright lighting which might have been the flight crew selecting the landing lights in order to attract attention and give other vehicles a chance to avoid them (assuming their navigation and communication is compromised).

Also - the HF/VHF antennae are not co-located with the satcom gear. There are usually a couple and on the underside of the fuselage (sat transponders on the topside for obvious reasons). Plus (see map at above link) I'm not so sure the aircraft could have gotten near/over the Korean peninsula, or approach Japan, without alarm bells going off and being intercepted.

So still doesn't quite add up.

 

[ffsear]

So still doesn't quite add up.

You can't lose a 777 in this day and age surely. Someone has to hide it.

Dosent the 777's black box automatically activate a location signal when it detects salt water?

 

[Pickman's model]

You can't lose a 777 in this day and age surely. Someone has to hide it

from seeing you in action today your mouth seems capacious enough to conceal the aeroplane.

 

[ffsear]

always talking, but nothing to say

added to ignore list

 

[2hats]

You can't lose a 777 in this day and age surely. Someone has to hide it.

Large aircraft have been lost before and never recovered. Even more have taken months or years to locate.

Dosent the 777's black box automatically activate a location signal when it detects salt water?

Yes. Underwater, ultrasound. Range a few km. So one needs to get reasonably close to locate them (if they, the CVR and FDR, haven't been destroyed).

If they are on land then that will be useless, though one would expect to have heard an ELT signal which would have drawn SAR close enough to eventually find them. There has been no ELT signal (reported).

 

[fat Andy]

I haven't been able to read the entire thread but the hypoxia theory is interesting. I flew on the Helios aircraft that crashed in Greece a few years ago, just a couple of cycles before the crash. From recollection the plane was, and had been excessively cold in flight on several occasions. I haven't heard any reports of similar but it could explain the potential for looking in the wrong area. The Helios flight flew until it ran out of fuel, albeit all on radar.

 

[2hats]

The Helios flight flew until it ran out of fuel, albeit all on radar.

And with two Greek F-16's in tow.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Doubt we're going to find out too much more tonight, considering the time difference

 

[weltweit]

Doesn't decompression cause the oxygen masks to drop down? or is that only sudden decompression?

 

[TomUS]

Sure wish they'd find this fucking plane. Getting sick of the media obsession with this story.

 

[weltweit]

Sure wish they'd find this fucking plane. Getting sick of the media obsession with this story.

Well the likely crash of an airliner with total loss of lives is imo a significant story.
Nevertheless there are plenty of other stories.

 

[Libertad]

Sure wish they'd find this fucking plane. Getting sick of the media obsession with this story.

Your concern is noted.

 

[xes]

You can't lose a 777 in this day and age surely. Someone has to hide it.

well, onboard were 20 people who worked for a company who made cloaking technology and other futuristic weapons......

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Sure wish they'd find this fucking plane. Getting sick of the media obsession with this story.

Naw, if they did that the news services would have to go to all that hard work finding something else to distract us from our own huge problems.

 

[2hats]

Another contradiction to previous reports: New Scientist are reporting that Rolls Royce have engine health management data from the flight. Apparently several bursts (indicating nominal operation) after take off and prior to the time of the last reported position.