Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 vanishes without trace

[Barking_Mad]

So, getting back to the fisherman

If he was above Bachok and he saw plane heading towards Thailand, maybe what the guy in Ketere saw, was the plane that had already turned around north of Kota Bharu, trying to head back towards Kuala Lumpur? Or maybe the fact that they're looking on the west coast suggests they decided to instead head for Langkawi or Penang airports, but totally overshot both, due to confusion from lack of oxygen or drugs or something (mumbling)?

Electrical fire, loss of communication, turned round to try and land, flies off target, flies below radar, slowly loses power and altitude and crashes into the sea in a more or less intact state before sinking?

 

[2hats]

that would fit with what passes for the information we have - aircraft off track, no distress calls, gradual loss of altitude. all of that fits the crew being incapacitated, rather than a bomb, or a structural problem.

Doesn't fit with the lack of transponder responses unless the crew (or hijackers) were incapacitated after the comms equipment had been intentionally disabled. Compare with Helios 522 which carried on squawking ident codes, etc after loss of cabin pressure and everyone on board had succumbed to hypoxia.

 

[kebabking]

LOL Say what?



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...rash-live.html

easy, its quite possible that the Malaysian military radars see things further away and lower than other countries in that area believe to be the case - Malaysia would like to keep that information quiet, so its being somewhat cagey about what it can and cannot see. the same may well be true of other, neighbouring states who wish to assist Malaysia, but who'd rather information about the capabilities of their systems weren't divulged to powers they might not consider friendly.

 

[Barking_Mad]

easy, its quite possible that the Malaysian military radars see things further away and lower than other countries in that area believe to be the case - Malaysia would like to keep that information quiet, so its being somewhat cagey about what it can and cannot see. the same may well be true of other, neighbouring states who wish to assist Malaysia, but who'd rather information about the capabilities of their systems weren't divulged to powers they might not consider friendly.

Ah yes

 

[el-ahrairah]

the ickeists have decided that there wasn't a plane in the first place.

i haven't yet discovered why they believe this.

 

[Barking_Mad]

the ickeists have decided that there wasn't a plane in the first place.

i haven't yet discovered why they believe this.

Well if you dont know, im not going to tell you!

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Very strict states at the top of the Peninsular with majority muslim populations, so not exactly party places where there's a busy nightlife.

Kota Bharu would be the place a lot of travellers stop over in for 1 night before heading to Kuala Besut (port) for the Perhentian Islands, but other than that, Kota Bharu isn't a place you'd stay in for long at all. Going further inland (and westwards) is the rainforest (and Taman Negara), so no huge population there either

 

[2hats]

Electrical fire, loss of communication, turned round to try and land, flies off target, flies below radar, slowly loses power and altitude and crashes into the sea in a more or less intact state before sinking?

Electrical fires tend to take a time to establish during which someone or system would fire off a mayday call or indicative telemetry. Only an explosive situation preempts this. Seems unlikely there would be a fire and no indication at all. There would need to be some complete comms failure prior to that.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Electrical fires tend to take a time to establish during which someone or system would fire off a mayday call or indicative telemetry. Only an explosive situation preempts this. Seems unlikely there would be a fire and no indication at all. There would need to be some complete comms failure prior to that.

Hmmm....what's your feeling, for what it's worth?!

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

the ickeists have decided that there wasn't a plane in the first place.

i haven't yet discovered why they believe this.

and there's a guy who's put up a video claiming to have busted Flight Radar and that they've somehow manipulated the pictures/tracking they put out

 

[kebabking]

and there's a guy who's put up a video claiming to have busted Flight Radar and that they've somehow manipulated the pictures/tracking they put out

its wildly OT, but where does the arrogance of the CT nuuters come from that they believe they, in their 'carpet rose' covered bedrooms, are cleverer, more astute, and less gulable thn the rest of us?

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

its wildly OT, but where does the arrogance of the CT nuuters come from that they believe they, in their 'carpet rose' covered bedrooms, are cleverer, more astute, and less gulable thn the rest of us?

Exactly, and for what reason would the Flight Radar bods have wanted to manipulate the images/video. Maybe someone had a gun to the back of their heads

 

[2hats]

Probably something to currently take with a very large pinch of salt - from the China Times:

The US Embassy in Beijing claims that USAF Base at U-Tapao in Thailand monitored a distress call from Malaysia Airlines MH370 at 2.43 am. The pilot said that the cabin was starting to break apart and he was making a forced landing. Malaysia Airlines were notified.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Probably something to currently take with a very large pinch of salt - from the China Times:

Very suspicious, and if that was the case, why would they (both the USAF and MAS) have kept quiet about it for so long?

 

[2hats]

easy, its quite possible that the Malaysian military radars see things further away and lower than other countries in that area believe to be the case - Malaysia would like to keep that information quiet, so its being somewhat cagey about what it can and cannot see. the same may well be true of other, neighbouring states who wish to assist Malaysia, but who'd rather information about the capabilities of their systems weren't divulged to powers they might not consider friendly.

Aside from the politics/military secrets aspect, primary surveillance radar is messy. Gets harder to interpret at greater ranges. They will be looking for a return from it towards the limit of the radar set (100-200nm out minus topographical blocking). If it has come down closer in to the radar installation (say ~30nm) they'd have a very good idea where to look. Out towards the range limit the altitude will be hard to determine with any degree of accuracy (think errors of thousands of metres). If they have successive data frames they will have range/heading/velocity and that's assuming they can pull it out from the anaprop of birds, insects, weather, inversion effects, ducting, etc. The degree to which they (the military authorities) are able to do this (or not) is clearly not something they want to advertise in public let alone to other regional powers.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

I've attempted to draw a map of what the residents in Kelantan saw, or rather, what I've interpreted from their stories. It's not a very good one though

This is just my imagining of what MAY have happened, according to their reports and if the plane were to be found near Pulau Perak which seems to be further out to sea but midway between Langkawi and Penang. Of course, they may have decided to go to the west to follow the coast line, but my green line is just heading over to the coast itself in a very squiggly pattern

Maybe they even decided going for one of those airports may be safer than flying over the rainforest to get back to KL (although they would have had enough fuel to get back to KL)



(snigger all you like )

eta: Bollocks, I resized it 'cos it was too big and now it's too small

 

[2hats]

Very suspicious, and if that was the case, why would they (both the USAF and MAS) have kept quiet about it for so long?

If there were any radio emissions from the aircraft I would imagine the US DoD/CIA orbital ELINT assets (Orion/Mentor, NOSS and the like) would have them buried in a large mass of other data (so would take time to pull out).

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

oh, I would expect them to be able to pull data out like that a bit more efficiently

 

[Barking_Mad]

Hmmm, website is down at the moment!

With Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 still missing as search and rescue operations enter their fourth day, an American satellite imaging company has started an initiative to crowdsource the search for the jet.

In this initiative, the public will help analyse high-resolution images for any sign of the missing plane.

ABC News reported that DigitalGlobe, based in Longmont, Colorado, has trained cameras from its five orbiting satellites on Saturday on the Gulf of Thailand region from where MH370 was last heard.

Luke Barrington, senior manager of Geospatial Big Data for DigitalGlobe, told ABC News that the satellite images gathered would then be made available for free to the public on a website called Tomnod.

DigitalGlobe would use a computer algorithm to see if users start tagging certain regions more than others and in-house satellite imaging experts would then follow up on leads, he said.

"Anyone can click on the link and begin searching the images, tagging anything that looks suspicious. Each pixel on a computer screen represents 0.5m on the ocean's surface.

"We'll say, 'here are our 10 top suspicious or interesting locations'. Is it really an aircraft wing that's been chopped in half or is this some other debris floating on the ocean?

"We may not be 100 percent sure, but if this is where I had to go pick a location to go looking for needles in this big haystack, this is where I'd start," he said.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Hmmm, website is down at the moment!

Interesting, but can imagine with all the rubbish on the seas, there'd be thousands and thousands of false report. No idea myself what a bit of debris would look like on a computer screen pixel representing 0.5m of the ocean's surface would look like

 

[2hats]

Hmmm....what's your feeling, for what it's worth?!

Heh. I feel we aren't getting the full facts.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Both guys identified now

PETALING JAYA: Interpol has identified the second suspect who used a stolen passport to board the missing Malaysia Airlines MH370 flight as Delavar Syed Mohammad Reza, 30, an Iranian, but says the two were "probably not terrorists".

Ronald K. Noble, the international police organisation's secretary-general, said Delavar and the first Iranian suspect - Pouri Nour Mohammadi, earlier identified by Inspector-General of Police Tan Sri Khalid Abu Bakar - flew from Doha to Kuala Lumpur with Iranian passports on Feb 28.

Speaking at a press conference in Lyon, he said they then switched to the stolen Austrian and Italian passports to board the MH370 flight.

Noble, however, played down the possibility that the duo were terrorists.

"There has been speculation about whether or not this was a terrorist attack.

"In the last 24 hours you see the story changing, but it becomes more certain that these individuals were probably not terrorists," he said.

Neither Iranian is listed on the Interpol database.

 

[Pickman's model]

Heh. I feel we aren't getting the full facts.

was that ever news?

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

and an explanation for the Balotelli story yesteray

SEPANG: A reference to Italian footballer Mario Balotelli was only for comparison's sake, the Transport Ministry said, over the identity of stolen passport holders boarding missing flight MH370.



A ministerial statement clarified that Department of Civil Aviation (DCA) director-general Datuk Azharuddin Abd Rahman used Balotelli to show that a person's nationality were not determined by their looks.


"No ill-feelings were meant to the personality concerned," said Transport Ministry crisis communications centre head V Mano.


Previously, Azharuddin had been asked to confirm a claim by Home Minister Datuk Seri Ahmad Zahid Hamidi that the two imposters looked like Asians, which he denied.


He then said that Ghanian-born Balotelli was an Italian citizen, adding that nationality and race were not the same thing.

 

[Pickman's model]

I've attempted to draw a map of what the residents in Kelantan saw, or rather, what I've interpreted from their stories. It's not a very good one though

This is just my imagining of what MAY have happened, according to their reports and if the plane were to be found near Pulau Perak which seems to be further out to sea but midway between Langkawi and Penang. Of course, they may have decided to go to the west to follow the coast line, but my green line is just heading over to the coast itself in a very squiggly pattern

Maybe they even decided going for one of those airports may be safer than flying over the rainforest to get back to KL (although they would have had enough fuel to get back to KL)

View attachment 49941

(snigger all you like )

eta: Bollocks, I resized it 'cos it was too big and now it's too small

size is important, minnie

 

[Barking_Mad]

Heh. I feel we aren't getting the full facts.

Oh dont be shy now! Hijacking seems to have been ruled out by the authorities, but given you said the total lack of communication would be unlikely if there was some sort of technical fault/fire - then is it not possible that the transponders were turned off and it deliberately flew low under radar?

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Fishermen from Kedah and Perlis states are now helping in the search using sonar on their boats

and

"
PETALING JAYA: The Royal Malaysian Navy (RMN) is not using submarines in search-and-rescue (SAR) operations for the missing Malaysian Airlines MH370 flight as its sonar is not designed to conduct sea-bed searches.

"It is only good for detecting and searching for moving underwater contacts that produce sound, such as the sound of engines, movement, and radio or sonar transmissions," said RMN chief Laksamana Tan Sri Abdul Aziz Jaafar, in a statement issued Tuesday.

He said submarines were not suitable for detecting contacts on the sea bed, adding that there were better options, including sonars fitted on hydrographic vessels, submarine rescue vessels, specialised rescue vessels and minehunters."

So what type do fishing boats have?

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

size is important, minnie

I'm not doing it all over again. Just imagine turning left from Terengganu, heading north towards Thailand, turning left again (west) towards Kota Bharu, turning left again and heading south (towards Bachok), and then turning right (west) heading over the rainforest for the west coast of the peninsular

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

No truth in the rumours 5 passengers did not board

SEPANG: There is no truth to the rumour that five passengers did not board MH370 said Inspector-General of Police Tan Sri Khalid Abu Bakar.

"We already checked the flight manifest and everyone who booked tickets were on board.

"There was one Malaysian girl who cancelled her booking as she mixed up the dates," he said.

The Department of Civil Aviation (DCA) had said earlier that there were five passengers who did not board their flights after checking in.



The DCA also said their bags were removed from the plane as per according to international standards.



“Take it from me. There was no such thing,” said Khalid when asked by a reporter about DCA’s statement.

 

[2hats]

oh, I would expect them to be able to pull data out like that a bit more efficiently

It has often been described as like trying to drink from a fire hose.