Losing benefit if you're an addict or obese

[J Ed]

Well some of the people on supersize v superskinny seem to think a bucket full of food per meal is an acceptable portion.

A great example of how in our society 'reality' TV serves the role of reinforcing prejudice and with this prejudice it fills a vacuum of actual knowledge of a given subject.

 

[Sasaferrato]

I've got a cousin, in his 30s now, who had a pituitary tumour in his mid-teens. He spent about 18 months as an in-patient after his tumour was removed, precisely so that the hospital could control the hunger his chemo and steroid therapies caused. He was on 1,000 calories a day for over 500 days, and yet left hospital weighing 70kg - he went in weighing 54kg. Now, both the staff and his family know he wasn't cheating, so where did the weight gain come from?

Fluid retention. There is no other possible answer.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Fluid retention. There is no other possible answer.

Exactly, aided by tissue and bone growth caused by steroids (he gained about 4 inches in height too, from 6ft at 15,to 6ft 4" at 16, even though the hospital waited to operate until he'd "finished growing"). Poor fucker got called Little Tom for years after that.

 

[equationgirl]

Well find some other way to deal with it then. That's what doctors / councillors are for. Just stop shoveling food down your throat then whinging and whining that everyone / everything else is to blame. That's what I have a problem with not that someone is overweight. Take some fucking responsibility for your actions.

I think Firky has your log-in and is doing some shitstirring.

 

[equationgirl]

One of the big research areas now is looking at gut flora and obesity. A dose of antiobiotics can, if you're unlucky, lead to you gaining weight on the same food intake.

Interesting, given my longterm antibitoic therapy and increased weight.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Thing is, weight gain is almost always multi-factorial, and it's only eejits like WouldBe and the late,unlamented jaed who don't acknowledge that. Interestingly, such people are almost always people who've lost weight, and for whom keeping it off hasn't been problematic - they're utterly convinced that what works for them will work for everyone - as unscientific a proposition as it's possible to propose.

If there are no other factors, such as illness or medication, then one size does fit all. However...

 

[Blagsta]

Unless that medication contains a Kg of sugar per tablet no it fucking won't. You only get calories from what you shove down your throat. If you find yourself putting on weight then cut down what you're eating.

Medications such as olanzapine or clozapine affect hormones which control appetite and fat metabolism.

 

[Blagsta]

Sorry but it's basic biology / medicine that weight gain is simply down to calories in - calories out. If you're gaining weight for whatever reason your either eating too much (even if it's what you usually eat) or you're not burning enough calories off.

If your medication makes you gain weight then your eating more than you need to. If your un happy with that weigh gain then eat less or excercise more.

It's really not that simple at all. Hormones, metabolism, the particular type of food are all factors, not to mention social and psychological factors which interplay with hormones and metabolism.

 

[Blagsta]

Fluid retention. There is no other possible answer.

Glucocorticoids affect glucose metabolism.

 

[toggle]

If there are no other factors, such as illness or medication, then one size does fit all. However...

or recent weight loss, or pcos, or hyperthiriodism, or insulin resistance, or disabiolity, or just something that you can't fucking find

 

[8115]

To be honest, I don't even care if you can only gain weight by shoving food down your throat (lovely phrase ), I still don't approve of linking benefits to treatment.

To discuss addiction (drug and alcohol), I'm reading a really good book that has loads of information in and it basically says there are a lot of reasons to see addiction more like an illness rather than a choice. I can't remember any of it, some of it was about pathways in the brain being changed in addiction.

Anyway this is still a stupid idea. I don't see who would deliver the programs.

It's just the Conservatives setting themselves up as "tough on scroungers" ready for the election.

 

[KeeperofDragons]

I would have thought that the majority of obese people claiming benefits either have a long term illness and the weight is a side effect or they are in work but on such shit pay that they have to claim in work benefits to survive. The tories are up to their usual trick of finding a group of people to scapegoat and another way to pit people again each other hoping to stop them getting together & fighting the bastards. Yet another deserving/undeserving poor stance from them with sections of the media cheering them on, anything to detract from the shit they & their tax dodging mates get up to.

 

[Flavour]

The tories are up to their usual trick of finding a group of people to scapegoat and another way to pit people again each other hoping to stop them getting together & fighting the bastards. Yet another deserving/undeserving poor stance from them with sections of the media cheering them on, anything to detract from the shit they & their tax dodging mates get up to.

exactly. it's a simple and remarkably effective strategy... encourage different sub-sections of the working class to hate each other, usually as an extension of individualism... "that individual's a right twat, why didn't he sort himself out?" -- always about the individual though, never the community.

 

[DotCommunist]

its not having much effect on the polls though.

 

[KeeperofDragons]

exactly. it's a simple and remarkably effective strategy... encourage different sub-sections of the working class to hate each other, usually as an extension of individualism... "that individual's a right twat, why didn't he sort himself out?" -- always about the individual though, never the community.

True

 

[friendofdorothy]

I suggest you try watching some episodes of supersize v superskinny then where several of the participants were eating around 9000 cals per day.

Then your eating too much.

Sorry but it's basic biology / medicine that weight gain is simply down to calories in - calories out. If you're gaining weight for whatever reason your either eating too much (even if it's what you usually eat) or you're not burning enough calories off.

If your medication makes you gain weight then your eating more than you need to. If your un happy with that weigh gain then eat less or excercise more.

TV 'reality' programmes aren't real. I imagine the people on that programme have extreme eating disorders, and are these people even on benefits because of them?

We live in a society were malnurishment conditions are becoming more common. It is now possible to be both fat and mal nurished. And as you are into blaming people - who is at fault for that?

I know some one who was always size 8-10. Then got really ill and as a result became emaciated - they looked like a walking skeleton and they were really weak. They became mentally ill and had to take anti anxiety medication, which made them increase in weight to size 18, with no change in habit or diet. They came off the medication, without medical supervision, because they could not stand being so big. I'm unsure if the medication was beneficial or not but quite simply they prefered to be distressed than fat. They reduced to their former size in months - no change in habit or diet required, if it were as simple as calories in - calories out then this would not have been the case.

Anyway WouldBe I'm glad this has never been a ploblem for you but NOW PLEASE JUST FUCK OFF.

 

[xslavearcx]

I'm afraid that's all wishful thinking on your part, IMO.

Labour are also courting the same super-rich to be their mates (see recent statement about Labour being good for/friends of business), and are showing absolutely no sign of recognising that there is a mood for change or any indication that they will do anything substantially different if they do get elected.

You and I are old enough that we have both heard this stuff about how Labour have to appear responsible/sensible in order to get elected, but once in office they will show their true socialist or even social democratic colours too many times. I'm baffled that you can still be taken in by it.

Exactly any party that replaced incapacity benefit with esa is for the watching imo

 

[friendofdorothy]

In case any of the posters on this thread don't know the misery that all the current benefit cuts are causing, I suggest you read these threads:

Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support

List of those for whom Welfare Reform and cuts were too much to bear

 

[Mapped]

They'd better not extend this bullshit into the workplace. I've been a chubby fucker with substance abuse issues throughout my 15 year career. I bet there's a fair few overweight coke heads working for the tories who are similarly afflicted. I hope Dave is demanding that Conservative Central Office drug test and weigh all their employees so they know who's wages to dock.

 

[Nylock]

Unless that medication contains a Kg of sugar per tablet no it fucking won't.

Utter shite, wankbangle.

 

[Nylock]

Well some of the people on supersize v superskinny seem to think a bucket full of food per meal is an acceptable portion.

There you go again with the quoting of supersize v superskinny. It's like quoting grand designs for basic DIY jobs. Pointless and stupid. Pretty much like your contributions here thus far:

 

[Nylock]

<snip>but am just trying to get Wouldbe to see a really awful situation for people that might make him more sympathetic.

you won't. The guy's a total bellend on this issue.

 

[Corax]

It's basic good manners to be nice to each other

With the exception of those with UKIP posters in their front windows.

 

[Corax]

What I meant was that you can make some generalisations about people who are obese due to eating disorders and you can make different generalisations about people who are overweight due to medication. Of course each person needs treating as an individual, but to treat someone as an individual you put them into categories. I mean, it's not like a dietician really "knows" a person, they just know which subcategory of which subcategory to file them in.

If that makes sense.

dietitian

Unless you're in the USA.

[/pedant]

 

[treelover]

its not having much effect on the polls though.

These attacks seem to be having diminishing returns, maybe Putin will come their aid, those of us old enough to remember the 80's can only marvel at how defence is now not a vote winner for the Tories and a vote loser for labour.

 

[WouldBe]

So, in this case Wouldbe, do you think it's fair to point the finger and shout 'fatty'?

No I don't. I never have and I never would.

ETA it's never fair to do this, of course, or right, or helpful, but am just trying to get Wouldbe to see a really awful situation for people that might make him more sympathetic.

I have every sympathy for people who have whatever medical problem when it's out of their control especially with mental health conditions. I've never claimed that if people could be bothered to read my posts carefully.

 

[WouldBe]

none of which is relavent to your claims.


you claimed there was no condition that caused people to eat in an uncontrolled manner.

I didn't actually if you read my post carefully. And I thought urban liked pedants.

 

[Blagsta]

I didn't actually if you read my post carefully. And I thought urban liked pedants.

Oh fuck off

 

[SpookyFrank]

its not having much effect on the polls though.

This one demented quote unquote policy is not supposed to give them a boost in the polls by itself, it's just part of the long game to try and whittle away decency and empathy and so create ideal conditions for thatcherite ideology.

 

[WouldBe]

I've got a cousin, in his 30s now, who had a pituitary tumour in his mid-teens. He spent about 18 months as an in-patient after his tumour was removed, precisely so that the hospital could control the hunger his chemo and steroid therapies caused. He was on 1,000 calories a day for over 500 days, and yet left hospital weighing 70kg - he went in weighing 54kg. Now, both the staff and his family know he wasn't cheating, so where did the weight gain come from?

Sorry to hear about your cousin.

Basic science says that to survive any warm blooded creature needs :-
Shelter / warmth
Water
Air
Food

There are no calories in shelter unless you are eating the furniture in which case you have more severe health problems to worry about that being overweight.
There are no calories in water and I do mean water not bottles of fizzy pop.
There are no calories in air unless you work in or live down wind of somewhere that utilizes powdered sugar by the ton.
There are calories in food.

I'll take your word that he wasn't cheating so that leaves the hospital were over feeding him. Some may be down to water retention but you can get medication to control that if the hospital had bothered.

At 70Kgs your cousin would only be obese (as this is what this thread is about) if he was under 5 ft tall. http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/healthy-living/Pages/height-weight-chart.aspx