Losing benefit if you're an addict or obese

[WouldBe]

Interestingly, such people are almost always people who've lost weight, and for whom keeping it off hasn't been problematic - they're utterly convinced that what works for them will work for everyone - as unscientific a proposition as it's possible to propose.

I've been fortunate to never have had a weight problem.

 

[WouldBe]

You'd die, you muppet.

Correct. From malnutrition i.e too low a calorie intake. Conversely if your gaining weight your eating too many calories.

Nice to see you can work it out in one direction but not the other.

 

[Blagsta]

Sorry to hear about your cousin.

Basic science says that to survive any warm blooded creature needs :-
Shelter / warmth
Water
Air
Food

There are no calories in shelter unless you are eating the furniture in which case you have more severe health problems to worry about that being overweight.
There are no calories in water and I do mean water not bottles of fizzy pop.
There are no calories in air unless you work in or live down wind of somewhere that utilizes powdered sugar by the ton.
There are calories in food.

I'll take your word that he wasn't cheating so that leaves the hospital were over feeding him. Some may be down to water retention but you can get medication to control that if the hospital had bothered.

At 70Kgs your cousin would only be obese (as this is what this thread is about) if he was under 5 ft tall. http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/healthy-living/Pages/height-weight-chart.aspx

Glucorticosteroids affect glucose metabolism. As has already been noted.

 

[WouldBe]

I don't think anyone else here has argued that benefits should be stopped for anyone

No I didn't. Stop reading what you want to read and read what I actually wrote.

 

[WouldBe]

No, of course you didn't, you merely implied it would aid weightloss or discourage unhealthy eating. So that's alright.

No I didn't. There's a wink on the end of that post meaning I wasn't being serious. So back at you.

 

[Red Cat]

Basic science, basic biology, basic medicine....

If only we all had your basic brain WouldBe

 

[Greebo]

No I didn't. There's a wink on the end of that post meaning I wasn't being serious. So back at you.

Fuck off - this isn't funny and your pisspoor attempts at humour are not appreciated.

BTW when several people seem to be consistently misreading your posts, you need to work on your communication and clarity, sweetie.

 

[SpookyFrank]

There are no calories in water and I do mean water not bottles of fizzy pop.

So you're telling me sugary drinks have calories in them? No wonder my pepsi and milkshake diet hasn't been working. Thankyou so much for your keen insight in this matter. You're really making valuable contributions and you should in no way do what everyone else has told you to do and fuck off.

 

[WouldBe]

I agree, but with the caveat that we do need to treat obesity as a result of over-eating or over-eating disorders differently to obesity as a result of medication. Therapy can sometimes help the former, for example, whereas it won't do much for the latter.

Also I don't think many people are on benefits just for being overweight, it's usually that they're disabled due to something else and that causes the weight gain. So medical reasons are more relevant when it comes to benefits than when it comes to people not on benefits. I mean, there are tons (NPI) of obese people in work, so it's not like obesity per se stops people working even though discrimination sometimes makes it more difficult for them to get specific jobs.

You were doing well up to this point and I agree with what you say.

I'm a bit surprised to see WouldBe use his ME as an excuse for being against people who are overweight.

I'm not against people who are overweight, obese or even morbidly obese.

What I am against is people who repeatedly use myths and intelligent people who back up those myths that give people who are obese an excuse for not doing something about their condition.

Tons of people with ME are overweight and for extremely understandable reasons that can't be solved by just saying "eat less."

You don't have to go hungry to lose weight or go on an expensive rabbit food diet just eat less calories per day than you need. It might take longer to lose the weight but it can be lost.

 

[WouldBe]

Actually not true on steroids, the leaflet that comes with the one I have when my asthma is very bad warns of weight gain with long term use. Try looking up long-term steroid use then perhaps you will think before you post the sort of crap you are posting on this thread.

Sorry to hear about your mum but unless the steroids contain loads of calories then you're wrong.

 

[Blagsta]

Sorry to hear about your mum but unless the steroids contain loads of calories then you're wrong.

No, you're wrong. As has been mentioned at least twice, steroids affect metabolism. It's a well known side effect.

 

[WouldBe]

Fluid retention. There is no other possible answer.

That's a hell of a lot of fluid to retain. Shouldn't he have been put on medication to reduce this?

 

[WouldBe]

Medications such as olanzapine or clozapine affect hormones which control appetite and fat metabolism.

You still need to take in the calories to gain the weight the calories don't just appear out of thin air.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

 

[WouldBe]

To be honest, I don't even care if you can only gain weight by shoving food down your throat (lovely phrase ), I still don't approve of linking benefits to treatment.

To discuss addiction (drug and alcohol), I'm reading a really good book that has loads of information in and it basically says there are a lot of reasons to see addiction more like an illness rather than a choice. I can't remember any of it, some of it was about pathways in the brain being changed in addiction.

Anyway this is still a stupid idea. I don't see who would deliver the programs.

It's just the Conservatives setting themselves up as "tough on scroungers" ready for the election.

Cheers. Completely agree with you.

 

[Blagsta]

You still need to take in the calories to gain the weight the calories don't just appear out of thin air.

Yes, you can take in calories and medication can affect how those calories are metabolised. This is basic stuff.

 

[Blagsta]

Medication can also affect appetite, satiety etc.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

The thing that baffles me is this (neoliberal?) idea that there is a human characteristic, that of having a job, and it's desirable and possible for all adults to achieve this characteristic by force of their own will and the will of the government. Totally divorced from wider society. As if having a job was like having tidy fingernails or something, rather than something infinitely more complex than that.

It's total wizard of Oz politics, click your heels together and say "there's nothing like having a job" 3 times. It's just getting stupid.

It's even worse than that. It can't just be your basic, honest job. It has to be a "real" job. They don't even respect real work, just work that moves money around and skims wealth off the top.

 

[spanglechick]

You were doing well up to this point and I agree with what you say.


I'm not against people who are overweight, obese or even morbidly obese.

What I am against is people who repeatedly use myths and intelligent people who back up those myths that give people who are obese an excuse for not doing something about their condition.
You don't have to go hungry to lose weight or go on an expensive rabbit food diet just eat less calories per day than you need. It might take longer to lose the weight but it can be lost.

are all eating disorders a myth? should anorexics just get over themselves and eat more?

what about other obsessive/compulsive behaviours? should agorophobics just go for a little walk?

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

gosh.

Have you got ambitions on being some kind of social leper or something Woulbe?

He was the redheaded step-child the last time this topic came up. I think he just enjoys a good beating, now and then..

 

[WouldBe]

Glucorticosteroids affect glucose metabolism. As has already been noted.

Irrelevant. Do you pick those up from the supermarket or go foraging for them.

 

[WouldBe]

No, you're wrong. As has been mentioned at least twice, steroids affect metabolism. It's a well known side effect.

Then adjust your diet to fucking compensate then instead of blaming the medication all the time.

 

[WouldBe]

Yes, you can take in calories and medication can affect how those calories are metabolised. This is basic stuff.

As is too many calories causes weight gain.
If a top athlete retired yet carried on eating the amount of calories they were used to would they / you be suprised if they put on weight?

If your metabolism slows for what ever reason why are you then suprised that you gain weight?

Or are you just using the medication myth as an excuse for being overweight / obese?

 

[Blagsta]

Irrelevant. Do you pick those up from the supermarket or go foraging for them.

What?

 

[Blagsta]

Then adjust your diet to fucking compensate then instead of blaming the medication all the time.

If only everyone was as perfect as you.

 

[WouldBe]

are all eating disorders a myth? should anorexics just get over themselves and eat more?

what about other obsessive/compulsive behaviours? should agorophobics just go for a little walk?

I've never said that and you're making yourself look silly by saying that.

 

[Blagsta]

I've never said that and you're making yourself look silly by saying that.

Someone's on a self destruct mission.

 

[Greebo]

What?

Just put him on ignore, he really has got nothing useful to say on this thread.

 

[ViolentPanda]

If there are no other factors, such as illness or medication, then one size does fit all. However...

...as we're both aware, one size fits no-one!

 

[ViolentPanda]

Utter shite, wankbangle.

"Wankbangle! I like that!"