It seems that McKenzie is at a disadvantage here given she operates entirely behind her real name and in doing so can be judged by folk who are unwilling to put themselves under the same microscope. So we’ll never get to know their skeletons. Seems pretty bad faith.
London Anarchist Bookfair 2022
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It seems that McKenzie is at a disadvantage here given she operates entirely behind her real name and in doing so can be judged by folk who are unwilling to put themselves under the same microscope. So we’ll never get to know their skeletons. Seems pretty bad faith.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
if only the same meticulous planning went into both
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
Perhaps she posts "here" and all over twitter using an exciting array of pseudonyms as a cunning disguise? We will never know. There are obviously advantages and disadvantages to being a public left-wing commentator.
I fail to see why people on Urban 75 should out themselves for the edification of you and Athos though.
JimW
支那暗杀团
Anyone ever seen her and Magnus in the same room?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yes
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
Lisa decided to be a public figure and indeed trades off it, and that's up to her. If working a normal job however using real names is a decision which can come with a range of consequences. Having your name next to anarchist activism leaves you at the mercy of the first boss, right-wing journo, aggy dickhead or pos ex who thinks to Google you. Some people don't want to do that, which is also up to them - organising an event shouldn't require you to become public property.
The right to anonymity online also, of course, goes way beyond anarchist activism per se, being one of the cornerstones of the modern internet. How many people here are using their real names eh?
hitmouse
entreprenulsoip critical thinking
For the record, I would like to state that I have no affiliation with either the old London bookfair collective or the new London bookfair collective, but I did do 9/11. And Shergar. And that Biden 2020 (A) graffiti, that was me as well.
So understanding that and laying out the risks involved, one might expect comrades to be supportive of those putting their necks on the line in this way. Rather than ‘disinclining’ them.
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
Not really, no. If anything the anarchist scene tends to be suspicious of self-promotion rather than putting it on podiums. Which has its own issues in terms of movement PR but that's a whole other argument over strategy which, as previously established, doesn't involve you.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
Both Lisa and the much maligned Ash Sarkar have had death threats and all sorts I believe, for which they both absolutely deserve our support and solidarity. AFAIK Lisa had a smear piece in one of the dailies a few years back for having the temerity to be a working class women enjoying herself on holiday.
None of this gives either of them carte blanche to do anyting whatsoever without criticism though. Indeed, "I am this thing so am beyond criticism" is one of the things people don't like about shouty student identity politics, no?
Athos
Well-Known Member
I'm not suggesting anyone use their real name (of course), but their U75 name. It just seems a bit odd for people to appear to be disinterested parties defending the collective, if, in reality, they're part of it.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
I'm not sure it matters to be quite honest.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
It would be fairly easy to identify some posters actual identities (or perhaps other pseudonyms that are less private) from their posting history on here. This is the reason why a few people have changed thier usernames over the years.
Also where does this end? People with connections to Lisa or Martin or the old collective should self-declare too by your logic.
Most people on this thread (me included) are bystanders with the popcorn and deckchairs out, who are living vicariously through a drama they are not involved in.
But I haven’t said she shouldn’t be subjected to criticism. That’s part and parcel of politics. It just seems a bit sad, to me, that she’s not invited to Anarchism’s premiere event in the UK given she’s very much part of it coupled with what has actually happened to said event.
Athos
Well-Known Member
Yeah, fair enough, I guess you're probably right about that.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
Well perhaps. I'm nostalgic for the days when you'd get Green Anarchist, Red Action, Michel Prigent and Communist Headache jeek by jowl in the lobby of Conway Hall (and the ICC just outside), so it's hard for me to be objective.
It's up to the organisers who they let in, ultimately. If they exclude enough people that opens up the possibility for some other kind of event maybe.
I noticed that Lisa had a stall at the open air Art Fair in Kings Cross recently and seemed to be in fine spirits. On balance I'd say personally she is a force for good.
I'm more interested to see whether groups who are (in my view) less controversial than her get a look-in this time...
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
People often say this when frustrated by a lack of info in a conversation, and understandably so, but transparency to who? The internet at large? A jury of Urbanites? The problem is, as anybody who's been on the receiving of a pile-on can tell you, that if there's hostile people looking to have a go there's nothing you can say that doesn't get torn into bits and flourished as a gotcha. More openness generally doesn't calm the situation or improve your standing, it just gives aggy people more ways to take a pop – eg. on this very thread, where people simply said "nah don't believe it" when the rejection letter was passed on and came up with their own ideas instead.
It's a sad reality of the web that transparency about controversy, often as not, is simply a synonym for sticking a sign on your back saying "kick me."
Looking at her twitter stuff apparently she isn’t banned from the book fair (although isn’t planning on going now) she just isn’t allowed a stall. To sell a book with working class voices in.
That seems a pretty mental punishment to me. What the heck is anarchism for?
Athos
Well-Known Member
Hmmm. Yes and no. There's undoubtedly some entrenched views now, such that some would use anything they say as a stick to beat them with, because they don't trust them. But the collective is partly responsible for that lack of trust by not being a bit more open from the outset.
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
I don't get invited to things all the time, I'm not sure I'd class it as a punishment. And her book's not banned, either. In fact the sum total of what she's been told she can't do is sit behind a table.
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
This should go without saying (not criticising you obvs). I mean, for fuck's sake.
So no platformed, basically.
Which kind of is a big deal.
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
Still being able to sell your book and hang out in the space with a singular restriction of not getting a table is not "no platform."
So if she’s welcome and can sell the book not getting a table is spite, then?
You’re not covering yourselves in glory here.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Absolutely, it's not "no platform".
...but it is, from my viewer's perspective, a bit daft.
So, the collective can have a stall and flog the book. And Lisa can come, stand near the stall, but not behind it?
I get that it might be an attempt at a conciliatory compromise (and if so, fair play) but looked at from a distance it just makes me shrug my shoulders and shake my head.
...again, the Bookfair collective are putting the work in, and I'm not, so their views - of course - carry more weight than mine. But it's not exactly tempting me to lug my wetsuit across London for.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Mind games for the middle classes, according to John Lydon
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
a) I don't care in the least what you think about my glory
b) I'm not a bookfair organiser so it wouldn't be my glory in any case
c) will you please stop throwing out random interpretations of what people say as though it has any meaning at all? It's very wearing. In fact your entire attitude of continuous attempted hyping of drama levels for something you have no stake in is very wearing. Though I suppose it does provide an example of what I was saying above.
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LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Yeah, some quite odd practicalities that don't make much sense really. I do think she's wrong to engage with Spiked and GBNews for all the reasons already mentioned, but I would not have that as a 'banning' offence personally, more one of ridicule and derision, especially the idea that it's about 'getting your message across' to others. I do completely speculate that the reason given she's had this happen might not be the whole truth though, as has also been mentioned.
I do long for the days of messy and eclectic bookfairs though, I do find the whole exclusion/banned thing mostly a very depressing direction, both for the bookfairs and wider politics.
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