List of those for whom Welfare Reform and cuts were too much to bear
- Thread starter Frankie Jack
- Start date
panpete
Blokes name, birds body.
404
panpete
Blokes name, birds body.
What if you are un-diagnosed but show symptoms of being a safety risk, yet have been discharged?
At the risk of sounding horribly smug, I predicted this over two years ago. FWIW I wish I'd been wrong.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Who can tell? My guess is that they'll try to claim that such a person is fit for work.
panpete
Blokes name, birds body.
What if suicidal people cite atos, cameron, osborne etc in their suicide notes?
panpete
Blokes name, birds body.
Mebbe it's a form of social 'cleansing' and if so, what of the poorest people who survive, what's the gov't got in store for them?
panpete
Blokes name, birds body.
Not if they're a safety risk surely, cos in a workplace you have to think of other employees too.
Charities dealing with them may advocate.
Also, I raised this concern at my discharge and got fobbed off by people doing the gov'ts dirty work.
Don't ask, don't even think about it.
Recognise that the absolute worst could happen and then do everything you possibly can to at least delay it. If the one thing which would make things easy for the current government is for those of us at the bottom of the heap to give up and die, you (and that "you" includes me) do exactly the opposite for as long as you possibly can.
They don't give a shit - if they get found fit for work they'll have to sign on for JSA - If JSA think they're not fit for work they're caught between the old rock and the hard one - They'll have to go to food banks and/or kill themselves. But IDS will claim that as a victory coz they're no longer "Parked" on benefits. This is policy now, there's no longer even a pretence of humanity in the system - Almost ovenight the social security we had has been replaced by an american style "welfare" system.
Don't ask, don't even think about it.
Recognise that the absolute worst could happen and then do everything you possibly can to at least delay it. If the one thing which would make things easy for the current government is for those of us at the bottom of the heap to give up and die, you (and that "you" includes me) do exactly the opposite for as long as you possibly can.
Not thinking about it's a bit of a tall order though - I lie awake sometimes thinking about it & I'm fairly sure you do as well.
panpete
Blokes name, birds body.
Woops, I didn't mean to make you mad.Don't ask, don't even think about it.
Recognise that the absolute worst could happen and then do everything you possibly can to at least delay it. If the one thing which would make things easy for the current government is for those of us at the bottom of the heap to give up and die, you (and that "you" includes me) do exactly the opposite for as long as you possibly can.
I feel a bit of a sicko, but I am inspired in my sicko suggestions by our sicko government, cos they are corporate psychopaths who don't care.
panpete
Blokes name, birds body.
That reminds me of extentialists post a few pages back, where suicidal people feel they have no choce but to kill themselves. "Have to kill themselves".
This country is making me feel really unwelcome in it. I get a pension of £460 a month which no one can take off me. I wonder if the countries that eastern euopeans are fleeing from will welcome english rejected people, and whether my pension will go further in those countries than in the UK, where it alone, as an income, means I won't get to eat, or wash, or heat/light the place.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
I think you are making the very common mistake of assuming that you are dealing with a unified system with clean hands.
ATOS's job is very simple - all it has to do is to "examine" someone to decide whether or not to advise a DWP decision maker whether you are fit to go to work. It is not meant to make any decisions about safety, suitable types of work, the effect of working on you, etc, etc.
It's called "plausible deniability". ATOS couldn't give a stuff whether you're going to go postal in your workplace - their job is simply to furnish the DWP with an excuse to take you off benefits. End of story.
Sad but true.
panpete
Blokes name, birds body.
But I know some people who have been placed in the support group cos they are mentally ill, both have mh professionals to vouch for them.
Just because i was discharged, doesn't mean I am well enough to work now as my mental health probs are still there.
Also there's regulations 29 & 35 which state that work could worsen the mental health of the person.
I am trying to get well, and recover to build up my life, not get worse.
I know the govt are unfair though, just look at all those declared fit who arent.
My support worker told me I was incapable of work so I should not worry, and when I told him about all of the scandal regarding the huge amount of people wrongly declared fit for work, he said that was other people, and could not understand my concern and basicaly fucked me off.
Just because i was discharged, doesn't mean I am well enough to work now as my mental health probs are still there.
Also there's regulations 29 & 35 which state that work could worsen the mental health of the person.
I am trying to get well, and recover to build up my life, not get worse.
I know the govt are unfair though, just look at all those declared fit who arent.
My support worker told me I was incapable of work so I should not worry, and when I told him about all of the scandal regarding the huge amount of people wrongly declared fit for work, he said that was other people, and could not understand my concern and basicaly fucked me off.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
One of the things I find myself saying to clients very frequently is this: "we never cause ourselves more distress than when we try to work out why people - or we - do the things they do."
And that's true in spades when it comes to stuff like this. At least with most people, you can reasonably assume they're probably acting mostly in good faith. I don't think it is being over-dramatic to say that the government and the DWP are not acting in good faith.
But we probably shouldn't assume they are evil, either. I don't really believe that they are making a cold-blooded calculation that people will kill themselves rather than subject themselves to the system, or that mentally ill people will suffer: these cunts genuinely believe that a bit of shelf-filling in Poundland will make people feel better, as if depression is like the bad day they sometimes have after a particularly bruising press conference. They truly believe that by "making work pay" (ie, by removing support from people needing it), people will somehow be galvanised into activity. That might be true for some small proportion of the benefit-claiming population, but it's certainly not generally true, and it is absolutely not true about that part of it that is off worth through disability or mental illness.
These people just don't understand mental illness. Notice how you don't hear much about IAPT any more - that was Prof. Layard's plan to savagely reduce the incapacity benefit roll by providing "manualised" therapy-on-the-cheap?
It crashed and burned. For a start, they were delivering it via barely-trained "therapists" who were doing it out of a book. That meant that they lacked the skills to connect with and engage the client, skills that are rather too often overlooked. Anyway, they started claiming a greater-than-50% success rate for IAPT.
But what they didn't say was that they'd gone in for a bit of sleight of hand. The 50% success rate was of those who completed the course of "therapy". It didn't include those who dropped out, or never showed up in the first place. Now, any decent therapist will tell you that a patient failing to follow through on therapy, or not showing up for it, is itself a therapeutic outcome - albeit not a positive one - and as such it would need to be counted as part of the statistics. An honest therapist will also tell you that somewhere around 20% of people going into therapy would have got better all by themselves anyway - it might have taken a bit longer, but it would have happened.
And when you factor in all the no-shows and early finishes on the IAPT programme, you end up with a figure not much different from 20%...in other words, very little difference from having done nothing at all. Not surprising, when you look at other therapeutic research which points out that the therapeutic modality has very little to do with outcomes - most of it's about the creation of successful therapeutic partnerships, something that the "therapist lite" IAPT practitioners had no chance of achieving.
So no surprise, then, that £170m of IAPT investment was sunk without trace.
And the reason I mention this is because, if you ever needed an example of how badly government understands mental health, it's right there. They really DO believe that all these people need is a bit of patronising twaddle coupled with a kick up the arse and it'll all somehow magically go right. And that's why they don't appear to care about the body count of the practices they're indulging in.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
But, panpete, one thing here. I'm sounding off about generalities, and I am noticing that the questions you are asking look a bit like you're trying to make some predictions on the basis of those generalities.
So I need to make something clear: this is opinion and broad-brush stuff. Don't take it as predictions in your own case, as I suspect you may have a bit of a tendency to do.
If you are due to be assessed, then there is little point concerning yourself with the broader picture, or what is right and wrong. You need to prepare for your assessment in exactly the same way as other people are being advised to do - documenting your condition, doing everything you can to demonstrate how it affects your ability to work, and - most important of all - ensuring that you are working towards a successful appeal, because it is likely that, unless you make a very persuasive case, you will not pass the ATOS assessment.
There is no point agonising over why that is, or the wrongness of it - it is how it is, and you will save yourself much angst by accepting that, and seeing it as a bump along the way. Don't allow the system to throw you into a flat spin - just work through it. If you don't trust your MH worker, get onto CAB, or advocacy services, etc. And ignore all my polemic about the system while you don't have the luxury of indulging in generalities because you're dealing with your own claim - that can all wait until later
So I need to make something clear: this is opinion and broad-brush stuff. Don't take it as predictions in your own case, as I suspect you may have a bit of a tendency to do.
If you are due to be assessed, then there is little point concerning yourself with the broader picture, or what is right and wrong. You need to prepare for your assessment in exactly the same way as other people are being advised to do - documenting your condition, doing everything you can to demonstrate how it affects your ability to work, and - most important of all - ensuring that you are working towards a successful appeal, because it is likely that, unless you make a very persuasive case, you will not pass the ATOS assessment.
There is no point agonising over why that is, or the wrongness of it - it is how it is, and you will save yourself much angst by accepting that, and seeing it as a bump along the way. Don't allow the system to throw you into a flat spin - just work through it. If you don't trust your MH worker, get onto CAB, or advocacy services, etc. And ignore all my polemic about the system while you don't have the luxury of indulging in generalities because you're dealing with your own claim - that can all wait until later
I think we can assume they're evil - People dying saves the system money.
There's no way they genuinely believe shelf stacking will solve peoples problems.
panpete
Blokes name, birds body.
But, panpete, one thing here. I'm sounding off about generalities, and I am noticing that the questions you are asking look a bit like you're trying to make some predictions on the basis of those generalities.
So I need to make something clear: this is opinion and broad-brush stuff. Don't take it as predictions in your own case, as I suspect you may have a bit of a tendency to do.
If you are due to be assessed, then there is little point concerning yourself with the broader picture, or what is right and wrong. You need to prepare for your assessment in exactly the same way as other people are being advised to do - documenting your condition, doing everything you can to demonstrate how it affects your ability to work, and - most important of all - ensuring that you are working towards a successful appeal, because it is likely that, unless you make a very persuasive case, you will not pass the ATOS assessment.
There is no point agonising over why that is, or the wrongness of it - it is how it is, and you will save yourself much angst by accepting that, and seeing it as a bump along the way. Don't allow the system to throw you into a flat spin - just work through it. If you don't trust your MH worker, get onto CAB, or advocacy services, etc. And ignore all my polemic about the system while you don't have the luxury of indulging in generalities because you're dealing with your own claim - that can all wait until later
I don't want to assume that I will be found fit for work, because that would just be a negative assumption and neg assumptions only serve to create more worry.
Plenty people I know, who are not as bad as me have been awarded ESA.
I don't have a worker from the mental health, only from a charity.
There seems to be loads of charitys now, different ones who take on patients that mh services discharged.
You didn't make me angry. That emoticon was for the powers that be.
Better to turn the anger outwards than inwards, where it's far too likely to become depression. IYSWIM
When not woken up by VP or far more immediate problems over which I can at least have some direct influence, I sleep well.
Wilfully allowing myself the delusion of Something/Someone out there who can be sometimes implored, cajoled, and just plain nagged into fixing the rest can be quite a solace.
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wobbly
I know you're worried and I know why. But i also think you remind me a great deal of a freind of mine who got herself in a tizz on a regular basis because she kept tying herself in knots of 'what if's.' You've not posted in a few weeks, but the last thing i recall you posting then was some significant steps forwards. With luck, and the help that people here and elsewhere can give you, you will get the esa award. if you don't, then have the fight for it. don't have the fight every day in your head, cause that will fuck you up.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
It was fairly obvious to anyone casting an eye over what were then policy proposals that the net result would be some suicides through stress that otherwise wouldn't have happened.
One need only have looked to the effects of new Labour's "Benefits Integrity Project" to know precisely what would happen. The fact is that sick and disabled people aren't as vocal a constituency as old folk, so the govt can shit on us with relative impunity.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
You're missing the point.
Finding you fit for work isn't about forcing you into a job where you'd be a "safety risk", it's about minimising the amount of financial support the state gives you. It's about chucking hundreds of thousands of people off of Incapacity Benefit/ESA, and putting them on JSA, just as that's the imperative behind the transition from DLA to PIP.
jakethesnake
In bed for Britain
Iain Dunked In Shit reckons he could live on £53 a week... breath-taking cuntishness... the following is a c&p from the Guardian's rerader's comments...
Ian Duncan Smith is a man who has spent most of his adult life sucking on the public teat and sponging off his wife's family.
He has a dim view of spongers and has promised to cut another £10billion off the state’s handout bill. Obviously, the people who take handouts they don’t deserve should be the first to take a cut.
So let’s start by talking about someone who lives off the state and has little experience of the world of work you and I know. He is 58 years old and has suckled upon the publicly-funded teat for most of his life.
He’s signed on the dole. He’s had four children and received child benefit for all of them. He has put them each through private school, too.
His wife hasn’t worked since they married, except for 15 months in which he got her a job paid by the taxpayer.
He and his colleagues eat and drink food subsidised by the tax payer in a palace we pay for. He is driven around in a car he does not own and has not paid for - we did.
And when he is too old to ‘work’ any more he will receive a better pension than most of the rest of us - which again we paid for.
He started out at the age of 21 with six years of taxpayer-funded military service, during which he acted as bag-carrier to a Major-General. Then in 1981, aged 27, he left the Army and signed on the dole for several months.
He then began a period of ordinary work based upon the skills he had gained at the taxpayer’s expense, and worked in sales for arms dealer GEC-Marconi.
He then moved on to a property firm, where he was made redundant after six months, and then sold gun-related magazines for Jane’s Information Group.
After 11 years of this not too glittering a career he succeeded in once again boarding the publicly-funded gravy train in 1992.
In the intervening 20 years he has been paid by the taxpayer every year more money than most of the rest of us manage to earn. He has managed to boost it up to more than six figures for a few years here and there by being more pompous than the others in his position.
In 2001 he helped his unemployed wife to have a suckle, arranging for her to be paid £15,000 a year to be his diary secretary. (The Newsnight TV programme pulled a story that seemingly alleged she didnt actually do anything).
These days he is given the grand total of near £150,000 a year from the taxpayer.
He lives for free in a £2million Tudor farmhouse on his father-in-law’s ancestral estate in Buckinghamshire.
He has three acres of land, a tennis court, swimming pool and some orchards, which is not bad for a life paid for by the state.
‘Who is this parasite?’ you might cry. ‘Tell us his name, let the authorities know his address. Let’s get this guzzler out of the cushy life and show him what life is like for the rest of us,earning £7 an hour with a rise once every eight years and a miserly pension if we're lucky.’
His name is Iain Duncan Smith, and his address is: Palace of Westminster, LondonSW1A 0AA.
He is disgusting and a far far bigger leech on your money than the worst dole scrounger you can think of and twice as pointless.
Ian Duncan Smith is a man who has spent most of his adult life sucking on the public teat and sponging off his wife's family.
He has a dim view of spongers and has promised to cut another £10billion off the state’s handout bill. Obviously, the people who take handouts they don’t deserve should be the first to take a cut.
So let’s start by talking about someone who lives off the state and has little experience of the world of work you and I know. He is 58 years old and has suckled upon the publicly-funded teat for most of his life.
He’s signed on the dole. He’s had four children and received child benefit for all of them. He has put them each through private school, too.
His wife hasn’t worked since they married, except for 15 months in which he got her a job paid by the taxpayer.
He and his colleagues eat and drink food subsidised by the tax payer in a palace we pay for. He is driven around in a car he does not own and has not paid for - we did.
And when he is too old to ‘work’ any more he will receive a better pension than most of the rest of us - which again we paid for.
He started out at the age of 21 with six years of taxpayer-funded military service, during which he acted as bag-carrier to a Major-General. Then in 1981, aged 27, he left the Army and signed on the dole for several months.
He then began a period of ordinary work based upon the skills he had gained at the taxpayer’s expense, and worked in sales for arms dealer GEC-Marconi.
He then moved on to a property firm, where he was made redundant after six months, and then sold gun-related magazines for Jane’s Information Group.
After 11 years of this not too glittering a career he succeeded in once again boarding the publicly-funded gravy train in 1992.
In the intervening 20 years he has been paid by the taxpayer every year more money than most of the rest of us manage to earn. He has managed to boost it up to more than six figures for a few years here and there by being more pompous than the others in his position.
In 2001 he helped his unemployed wife to have a suckle, arranging for her to be paid £15,000 a year to be his diary secretary. (The Newsnight TV programme pulled a story that seemingly alleged she didnt actually do anything).
These days he is given the grand total of near £150,000 a year from the taxpayer.
He lives for free in a £2million Tudor farmhouse on his father-in-law’s ancestral estate in Buckinghamshire.
He has three acres of land, a tennis court, swimming pool and some orchards, which is not bad for a life paid for by the state.
‘Who is this parasite?’ you might cry. ‘Tell us his name, let the authorities know his address. Let’s get this guzzler out of the cushy life and show him what life is like for the rest of us,earning £7 an hour with a rise once every eight years and a miserly pension if we're lucky.’
His name is Iain Duncan Smith, and his address is: Palace of Westminster, LondonSW1A 0AA.
He is disgusting and a far far bigger leech on your money than the worst dole scrounger you can think of and twice as pointless.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Why kill yourself when you can actually eliminate part of the problem instead (nudge nudge, wink wink) and get three squares and a roof over your head for the rest of your natural?
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