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Libya - civil unrest & now NATO involvement

The mainstream news seems a tad dull at the moment but twitter is full of news & rumour as always.

Multiple tweets about a wide array of tribes turning against Gaddafi, including ones in the west.

Also:

These are all from Iyad El-Baghdadi, who happens to be a libertarian Ron Paul supporter but regardless his tweets have often been very good during this uprising and I've quoted him before:

Abdulrahman Shulgum, #Libya's UN ambassador, one of #Gaddafi's last loyalists, calls upon him to resign in a live statement on Aljazeera.

Adel Zantani on Aljazeera, live from Azzintan: Oil facilities at Hammada al Hamra are under our control and protection

BRQ: Militia under command of Saadi #Gaddafi heading towards oil fields to sabotage them.
(I dont know what source BRQ refers to)

Our friend @Benghazinoo reports a navy vessel has just left #Tripoli on its way to bomb #Benghazi.

Aljazeera reports #Benghazi residents have renamed central square to "Tahrir Square"

Gaddaf-al-Damm, Gaddafi's envoy to Egypt, attempted to recruit tribesmen on the #Libya-Egypt border for an attack across the border. Failed.

Libyan regular army is under equipped and largely ceremonial. His well trained militias are armed to the teeth
.

http://twitter.com/#!/iyad_elbaghdadi
 
Ooh some people are reporting that official Libyan state television has gone offline, and indeed the website that used to stream it that I linked to some days ago is just showing 'no signal' and making a slight buzzing noise.

http://wwitv.com/tv_channels/b1951.htm

Could just be a satellite version of the channel that is down though, no way to find out more myself.
 
French doctor in Libya: Over 2,000 killed in Benghazi alone

E2a more talk on twitter re oil wells:

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
An analyst told BBC Arabic today that Gaddafi gave an ultimatum to tribes to either support him or to have the oil fields destroyed. #Libya
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Al Arabiya breaking: Reports that Al Moatasim Battalion (loyal to Gaddafi) is moving to destroy oil fields & refineries #Libya
3 minutes ago
 
Well I guess we will soon find out if the oil field threats were empty ones.

The other reports coming in right now seem to be about Tajoura/Tajura being under siege or attack by tanks etc. Its only 14km east of Tripoli.
 
Via the Guardian:

7.57pm GMT: The US-chartered ferry to evacuate Americans from Libya has had its departure delayed by stormy weather in Tripoli.

Here in Washington DC, Hillary Clinton is about to speak on Libya, but no word on when Obama's televised statement is going to happen. Last we heard, the White House was waiting for the evacuation boat to leave before speaking.
 
Hmmmm, mechanical fault, really?

The Foreign Office was facing embarrassment tonight as its first rescue flight for British nationals stranded in Libya was stuck on the tarmac at Gatwick with a mechanical fault.
With hundreds of Britons waiting to be flown out of Tripoli airport, the Boeing 757 had still not left after 5pm. It had been due to leave at 12.30pm.

The delay came after British nationals and shadow foreign secretary Douglas Alexander accused the Foreign Office of taking too long to respond to the chaos that has engulfed Libya.

Foreign Secretary William Hague promised to send as many rescue flights to Libya as were needed to evacuate Britons wanting to leave.

Two were due to leave today and a third - if necessary - early tomorrow morning.

At least 300 Britons are in and around the Libyan capital Tripoli, while up to 170 more - mainly oil workers - are in remote desert camps at risk of attack as violence continues.

Mr Hague said that, as well as laying charter planes, he was not ruling out the possibility of using military flights "without permission".

Royal Navy frigate HMS Cumberland is on its way to the Libyan coast to evacuate Britons around the Benghazi area.

But in a statement this afternoon, Mr Hague insisted: "We are taking every action to get the remaining British nationals in Libya out of harm's way."

The first of the Foreign Office flights - free for British nationals, unlike similar flights to and from Egypt recently - was hoped to return to the UK later today.

However, the 200-capacity Boeing 757 still was still at Gatwick at 5pm despite previously being billed to depart for Tripoli at 12.30pm.

Foreign Office minister Alistair Burt said the plane, which was meant to arrive by 9.30pm, was being fixed.

"Sometimes planes develop faults through nobody else's fault or error," he told the BBC. "We will hopefully get those planes out as quickly as possible."
 
where is our "middle east peace envoy " ?

is he still being paid for the job ?

hes a bit shit if you ask me ...everyones now shooting each other
 
where is our "middle east peace envoy " ?

is he still being paid for the job ?

hes a bit shit if you ask me ...everyones now shooting each other

Tony Blair does seem to have a knack for getting people to shoot each other. Maybe he is behind all of this.
 
Well Libya is not exactly in the middle east, although I think it would count as being part of the 'greater middle east', and Blairs role as peace envoy is rather narrow, anyway why the hell would we want him involved?

According to an article from when he was first appointed:

His brief includes Palestinian governance, economics and security rather than the wider conflict between Israel and Palestinians - at least initially.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6244358.stm
 
Im only focussing on this angle because of a lack of other detailed news right now, anyways, via the Guardian...

8.34pm GMT: The British government's rescue mission is also grounded. My colleague Ben Quinn reports:

The Foreign Office has just confirmed that a charter plane to airlift Britons from Libya, which was due to have taken off from Gatwick airport earlier today, is still on the ground with technical problems. Another plane, also chartered by the Foreign Office, is also still sitting on the tarmac in Italy.

Meanwhile, William Hague has given an interview with BBC News, sounding defensive about the Foreign Office's attempts to evacuate British citizens from Libya.

He claimed that hundreds of Britons had already left Libya with Foreign and Commonwealth Office assistance.

Referring to failure of a number of planes to take off for Libya earlier today in a bid to airlift Britons in Tripoli under the auspices of the government, he said: "What happened this morning is that two of the airlines that were to supply planes refused or failed to do so."

"We are one of the few countries to have people at the airport," he added.
 
If gaddafi goes...... its not going to end there ...is it ?

Fuel and food prices still rising

Egypt opens the boarder and lifts restrictions ..Hamas then gets access to the global arms market

round 4

bet Blair hands in his notice
 
His brief includes Palestinian collaboration, corruption and repression rather than the wider conflict between Israel and Palestinians - at least initially.


Edited for you
 
...If there was a revolution to remove Saddam from power we would all be supporting it right now. The difference being that such an act would be the act of the Iraqi people...
So what were the Iraqi Kurds doing in northern Iraq? What were the Iraqi Shia doing in Basra? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_uprisings_in_Iraq

Is it enough to say that you 'support' someone and then not lift a finger and stand by and watch them getting slaughtered?
 
If gaddafi goes...... its not going to end there ...is it ?

Fuel and food prices still rising

Egypt opens the boarder and lifts restrictions ..Hamas then gets access to the global arms market

round 4

bet Blair hands in his notice

No it's not going to end there. Its just beginning but I think you have the wrong dynamic. This is good for the Palestinians but bad for Hamas. The real dynamic is that the Palestinians are inspired to rise against Abbas and challenge the reactionary bullshit of Hamas. The inspirational effect of the Arab uprisings and their democratic and secular character is the most important element here.
 
So what were the Iraqi Kurds doing in northern Iraq? What were the Iraqi Shia doing in Basra? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_uprisings_in_Iraq

Is it enough to say that you 'support' someone and then not lift a finger and stand by and watch them getting slaughtered?

False choice. Calling for western intervention is one thing (because yeah it worked so well in Iraq didn't it? 5 MILLION DEAD!) calling for solidarity, particularly from the masses in neighbouring Arab states is another. Egyptian and Tunisian revolutionaries should (and are) organising international brigades and humanitarian convoys to offer assistance as brothers and sisters in arms, as fellow revolutionaries.

The bottom line however is these revolutions must be the actions of the peoples of these countries because it is in their actions that the essentially democratic nature of these uprisings is realised. It is not done for them, it is not imposed. It is an example of self determination.
 
No it's not going to end there. Its just beginning but I think you have the wrong dynamic. This is good for the Palestinians but bad for Hamas. The real dynamic is that the Palestinians are inspired to rise against Abbas and challenge the reactionary bullshit of Hamas. The inspirational effect of the Arab uprisings and their democratic and secular character is the most important element here.
.

Yeah ...... gaddafi and hamas were mates
 
One of ALJAzeeras headline banners tonight is stupid. Something about 'people of Benghazi continue to protest despite crackdown'. Errr, there is no crackdown in Benghazi for days now.
 
...Egyptian and Tunisian revolutionaries should (and are) organising international brigades...
So these international brigades have weapons? They will be able to fight against artillery, tanks, APCs and bombers? I haven't seen any mention of anything like this at all.

Would you even be against NATO providing intelligence to pro-democracy army units about where Gadafi's tanks were moving to etc, or is this also contrary to your political beliefs?
 
So these international brigades have weapons? They will be able to fight against artillery, tanks, APCs and bombers? I haven't seen any mention of anything like this at all.

Would you even be against NATO providing intelligence to pro-democracy army units about where Gadafi's tanks were moving to etc, or is this also contrary to your political beliefs?

It's not a question of what is contrary to my political beliefs as you so patronisingly put it. It is a case of recognising political realities. The reality that Nato and the US are ardent supporters of Israel (and previously Mubarak) and of the very despots that are being challenged. To ask David Cameron, who was in Kuwait yesterday selling them tear gas, to come to the support of Arab revolutionaries is like inviting the wolf to dinner. They will come, and eat the guests.
 
It does sound like Britain is being a bit innefective in getting our people out to safety, the radio is saying that the French and Germans have already had a few flights in and out and the turks have evacuated loads, but our first flight is still not arrived at Tripoli.
 
@dylans

I do agree with you about "the essentially democratic nature of these uprisings", however if an impasse is reached where protesters - unarmed or maybe with rifles - are facing tanks, artillery, shelling from gunships and bombers, then how does it undermine the 'democratic' and 'mass' nature of the revolution if someone with the required technology helps them out? Would you also object to intervention by Egyptian (ie non-western) military units? I get the impression that you are very concerned with ideological issues - you only want the right *kind* of intervention. My attitude is that putting some of Gadafi's airplanes or tanks out of action (for example) could help save a lot of human lives and wouldn't make a massive iraq-style civil war any more or less likely - it just levels things up a bit between the two sides on the ground.
 
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