Libya - civil unrest & now NATO involvement

[bonathanjishop]

No it isn't. Just because this looks like a revolution, doesn't mean it is one. Ukraine and Georgia looked much the same.

I have the solid information of seeing, hearing and reading example after example of people exercising direct agency over their own lives and at great personal risk; this alone is enough evidence to give the lie to the line that 'this is just the US Government re-arranging their puppets'. Your inability to grasp this basic reality, just reinforces what others have been saying about your myopia on this thread.

Louis MacNeice

p.s. the lack of courage in your convictions, evidenced by your attempted fence sitting, isn't very edifying and sits uncomfortably with your erstwhile revolutionary fervour.

Louis "In the wrong lane" MacNeice reminds me of Dwight from The Office:

 

[phildwyer]

You got to give him credit for his unflappability though.

"Mice on drugs have attacked the young people..."

 

[weltweit]

William Hague says we are sending (attempting to send) a chartered jet to Tripoli for Brits .. plus we are sending a warship in case more urgent evacuations are needed.

Hilary Clinton speaking now.

 

[teqniq]

Pics of the demo in London today:

http://yfrog.com/gzzzvxkj
http://yfrog.com/gyd7iesj

via @Umm_Issa

 

[likesfish]

not exactly sure how a frigates going to help depends on how many Brits are in Libya?
mad dictator mostly appearing to add color to the UN Arab league etc. stops being funny when he starts shooting people

 

[quimcunx]

Pics of the demo in London today:

http://yfrog.com/gzzzvxkj
http://yfrog.com/gyd7iesj

via @Umm_Issa

I did think about going down to that but I don't get out of work til after 6 (when it was scheduled to finish) and it would have taken a while to get there. If they're back I'll try to head down.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

The Libyan Interior Minister has renounced the regime and joined the revolution

 

[TruXta]

Fukin a!

 

[teqniq]

Lots of pics from Bengazi, prolly been posted before but there's some new ones:

no warnings (but i only went to page 2)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/a7fadhomar/

 

[quimcunx]

What I would appreciate from the news agencies (and this for Egypt and the rest too) are some diagrams of govt and armed forces structures, and tribal ones ( I notice AJE has just done a quick summary of those)

How many ministers does he have and how many have resigned. Who is still supporting him?

 

[elbows]

The Libyan Interior Minister has renounced the regime and joined the revolution

On a very related note via twitter:

Sultan Al Qassemi
Gaddafi announced is his 90min ramble that General Abdul Fatah Younis, the Libyan Minister of Interior "was shot with bullets" & "vanished".

 

[teqniq]

also:

glcarlstrom Gregg Carlstrom
AJA: Libya's interior minister asks the security forces to join the protesters. #libya

@quimcunx: we need one of those diagrams that the Arabist produced (and which I still couldn't make any sense of).

 

[elbows]

Lots of pics from Bengazi, prolly been posted before but there's some new ones:

no warnings (but i only went to page 2)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/a7fadhomar/

There have been some quality additions to that page since I last looked.

 

[quimcunx]

also:



@quimcunx: we need one of those diagrams that the Arabist produced (and which I still couldn't make any sense of).

The only thing I saw on there was a scrawl someone had done. Then something exciting happened and I didn't look at it properly.

 

[elbows]

A little background on the interior minister via twitter:

Maj. Gen. Abdulfattah Yunus is #Libya's minister of interior and a revolution colleague of #Gaddafi; joined the #Feb17 revolution confirmed.

I wonder how many pals Gaddafi actually has left. Wonder where the state tv is broadcast from. Wonder where the military that arent on Gadaffis side are.

 

[quimcunx]

The shoes are out in reaction to Gadafi's speech.

 

[elbows]

Gadaffis world got very small very quickly.

Still not very much concrete news from Tripoli today but at least the news from the east has all been good, the amount of fear that was flying around this time yesterday does indeed appear to have been just that, fear more than substance.

 

[quimcunx]

More on interior minister.

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: Those who shot at me were Gaddafi's men, the bullet missed me but hit one of my relatives. #Libya
37 seconds ago Favorite Retweet Reply

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: I wish Gaddafi had said a prayer for the fallen martyrs rather than his long speech #Libya
39 seconds ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: Gaddafi is a stubborn man but its finished. Everything is collapsing now. I am sad for all what has happened. #Libya
1 minute ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: We undertook (the 1969) revolution for the people of Libya, not to turn around & start shooting at them. #Libya
2 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: I am not a traitor. I was a close friend. I was surprised by what Gaddafi did. I stood by him for many years #Libya
3 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Resigned Interior Minister Abdul Fattah Younis: Gaddafi's men came to shoot me but the bullets missed me. #Libya
4 minutes ago
»

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Al Hurra now speaking to Abdul Fatah Younis the resigned Interior Minister. #wow

 

[quimcunx]

resigned diplomats to

arab league
poland
india
indonesia
australian
bangladeshi
and one I missed.

 

[weltweit]

Hillary Clinton made a constructive statement.

 

[elbows]

Hard to see how it is anything more than a matter of time before he is killed, kills himself or runs away. And quite possibly not very much time either, although the lack of useful detail about exact situation in Tripoli makes it a tad hard to judge.

 

[Streathamite]

so he would just quietly hand it over to his successor ? when it becomes obvious to him that his position was untenable ?

Nope, he'll either fight to the death, in which case this is gonna get VERY nasty, or plan an exit. torching the wells aids him in neither scenario. And no, he isn't mad.

 

[elbows]

Mad is a vague word, he has always had some symptoms of at least one personality disorder, although the same could be said for quite a lot of leaders.

 

[Lock&Light]

resigned diplomats to

arab league
poland
india
indonesia
australian
bangladeshi
and one I missed.

At least the USA as well.

 

[peterkro]

Mad is a vague word, he has always had some symptoms of at least one personality disorder, although the same could be said for quite a lot of leaders.

Yes and not just political "leaders" a lot even I might say a majority of CEO's etc meet the diagnostics criteria of the various personality disorders.

 

[elbows]

Iyad El-Baghdadi on twitter has posted interesting summaries of the offspring of Gadaffi:

Saif Gaddafi: Do I really need to say much?

Saadi Gaddafi: Troublesome, unpredictable, and prone to fights & drunkenness. Ex footballer. Has his own militia. Defeated in Benghazi.

Moutassim Gaddafi: "National security adviser". May have his own militia. Described as "not very smart". Hates his brother Saif.

Hannibal Gaddafi: Ex-con, wife-beater, and professional asshole. Google him. Caused diplomatic crisis between Libya & Switzerland.

Khamis Gaddafi: Most dangerous of all. Has his own well organized, trained, funded militia. Main pro-regime troops fighting now are his.

Mohammad Gaddafi: Connected to franchisee of Coca Cola in #Libya. Runs communications, post offices. Head of Olympic committee.

Saif-ul-Arab #Gaddafi: The other "Saif". Not much known about him, but Munich knows him as a party animal.

Aisha #Gaddafi: Only biological daughter. Lawyer. Her daddy got Lionel Richie to sing in her birthday party. Was on Saddam's defense team.

 

[teqniq]

Nope, he'll either fight to the death, in which case this is gonna get VERY nasty, or plan an exit. torching the wells aids him in neither scenario. And no, he isn't mad.

Yes, well there's this article which isn't exactly optimistic:

Gaddafi's Next Move: Sabotage Oil and Sow Chaos?

I appreciate this is likely to stir up the 'big button' debate which was going on earlier and would like to point out in advance that when I post links it does not necessarily mean that I agree with the content (in fact in this instance I would far rather it wasn't likely to be true). In any event it's another possible set of scenarios, written by some ex-CIA bod from an interview with a 'source'. Make of that what you will.

 

[elbows]

Oh here we go again, Saif Gadaffi to hold a 'press conference shortly'

 

[not-bono-ever]

he seemed to be hiding in a badly constructed bunker today - its all getting a bit call of duty innit

 

[quimcunx]

Sorry for the longcat post but I don't know of other transcript yet and this is someone who must have been close to Gadafi. We should also remember he is pleading his case too.

Tweets are presented with first at the bottom.

Abdul Fattah Younis: To Gaddafi I tell him: Please end your life by praying for the martyrs, ask for God's forgiveness & the people's #Libya
1 minute ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: I won't be surprised if Gaddafi used mercenaries against the people #Libya
1 minute ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: I have not met any of the mercenaries, I heard that some of them exist though. There are 500,000 Africans in #Libya
2 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: Who will aid him? Everyone has abandoned him. The Eastern & Central Provinces have abandoned him #Libya
3 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: From my knowledge of Gaddafi, he won't leave, he will stay to the end, but he will stay alone. #Libya
3 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: Gaddafi won't leave. He may commit suicide or will be killed. I didn't wish for him to face such an end.
4 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: Gaddafi's speech was very clear to any one who has a brain. He is nervous, he is stubborn. He may commit suicide
5 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: Many tribes pledged to me that they have joined the protesters including the Tuareg (mentioned many other names)
5 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: ...those who shot belong to the Security Battalions. I guarantee that none of my men shot at protesters.
7 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: I gave orders to my men in Benghazi not to shoot at protesters, not one of my men shot at protesters, those who shot...
7 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: Citizens collected weapons & brought them to me, we put them in a massive (airplane) hanger for safekeeping
8 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: I begged Gaddafi not to send planes, I called him. Now of course we don't speak, I have joined the revolution
9 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: I offer my condolences to the fallen martyrs (reads a statement of support for the youth revolution)
10 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: Our plan now it to support the youth in Tripoli so that it is liberated like Benghazi was.
11 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: I wish Gaddafi had instead said a prayer for the fallen youth in his last days in office.
11 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: I am not a two-faced man. I worked with Gaddafi for 42 years, I was shocked at his speech today
12 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: I told Gaddafi, we have too many unemployed youth. I want that dirty person who shot my cousin to face justice #Libya
13 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Al Arabiya asks "You were a Minister of Interior but you only choose to speak now?" Younis "I spoke to him 2 weeks before the revolution"
14 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: Gaddafi, that dirty man, wanted to say that I was killed by protesters so that my tribe, the Obeidat will stand by him
15 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: A bullet then went next to my right cheek, it hit my cousin who is in a very bad case now. #Libya
16 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Al Arabiya asks him :what happened? Abdul Fattah Younis: There was a crowd of people outside my office, I was with my cousin
17 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: The Libyan people have suffered too long. We have so much oil, the people could have lived as in a 5 star hotel
18 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
General Abdul Fattah Younis now on Al Arabiya TV.
19 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Al Jazeera: The White House is studying a request from Senator John Kerry to place Libya under sanctions once again.
23 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: All the world human rights organisations sent me letters asking "What is happening in your country?" #Libya
34 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: Even with Gaddafi's mistakes it is unbelievable that he would finally use rockets & bombs against his own people #Libya
36 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: I call on the police to continue their work & protect the people who have been living in fear of bombardment #Libya
38 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: The pilots fired at the roofs of the arms depots but they have now become available to all to take. #Libya
40 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: There were civilians protecting that artillery depots (that the aircrafts bombed) so they they are not misused. #Libya
42 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: Those who shot at me were Gaddafi's men, the bullet missed me but hit one of my relatives. #Libya
43 minutes ago

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: I wish Gaddafi had said a prayer for the fallen martyrs rather than his long speech #Libya
45 minutes ago
»

SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Abdul Fattah Younis: Gaddafi is a stubborn man but its finished. Everything is collapsing now. I am sad for all what has happened. #Libya