Libya - civil unrest & now NATO involvement

[Casually Red]

I like him too , always have done , always will . And despite the bollocks the western media was bombarding its citizens with its been proven beyond any doubt he retains massive popular support in Libya . Theres absolutely no way he could still be in power after all this time and pressure if the majority of his people were against him . He's still there , his military hasnt crumbled in the face of the onsluaght and tens of thousands are still rallying to the countrys cause .

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

The Donkey enjoys fuck-all popular support in Libya, even in Tripoli. The fact is that more Libyans support NATO than Donkey. That's why we're winning. He called for a million-man march, and what did he get? Maybe seven-thousand.
But did anyone notice the French and rebel etc. flags in the pictures? Despite the inept man's threats [designed to pressure the EU countries to back the "the political solution"] Libyan people have a solidarity. Donkey says one thing while doing another (and btw that's without making a *real* threat). For example during the EU embargo [except the Uk, funny enough!] his excuse was the Minaret ban in Switzerland; Whereas, the Barcelona Process had deep problems, and he is trying to get Blair and Bush with his useless death squads because of their devaluation of the state companies (during the EU negotiations).

I am a critical supporter of the rebellion. NATO are effective but I fear they will do their best to compromise the post-Donkey future. Thus I'm somewhat pessimistic.

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

Basically, two points about the Tripoli rally:-

1. Tripoli has been turned into an open prison. People shop in the morning. Then they stay in doors. If more than three people are together they're shot on spot! And that isn't the first time such restrictions have been imposed. . .Yesterday's rally was just a typical gov't rally with people on drugs, released prisoners, paid up Daffists etc.. Don't believe his propaganda.

 

[IC3D]

Basically, two points about the Tripoli rally:-

1. Tripoli has been turned into an open prison. People shop in the morning. Then they stay in doors. If more than three people are together they're shot on spot! And that isn't the first time such restrictions have been imposed. . .Yesterday's rally was just a typical gov't rally with people on drugs, released prisoners, paid up Daffists etc.. Don't believe his propaganda.

I don't know he must have things very well locked down if his rebelious population can't muster the level of resistance they do in Syria, Yemen or Bahrain, so what can you assume then there's a hidden genocide of protestors completely undocumented or there is only resistance in individual towns that isn't spreading.

 

[Casually Red]

Basically, two points about the Tripoli rally:-

1. Tripoli has been turned into an open prison. People shop in the morning. Then they stay in doors. If more than three people are together they're shot on spot! And that isn't the first time such restrictions have been imposed. . .Yesterday's rally was just a typical gov't rally with people on drugs, released prisoners, paid up Daffists etc.. Don't believe his propaganda.

please fuck off with your bullshit.

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

2. It was supposed to be a 'peace' rally, not a defiant one. Hence propaganda for negotiations, cos Daffy knows what's up. He can't win against the might of Libyan masses!

But no unity is possible without his perish. You can't negotiate with a 'Pharoa' [i.e someone who would rather burn his 'kingdom' than let his people rule it, as he has said].

Long live Libya! Victory to the revolution!

 

[Casually Red]

Th

e Donkey enjoys fuck-all popular support in Libya, even in Tripoli.

yet hes still in power after 3 motnhs of bombing

NATO are effective

yet he's still there after 3 months of bombing

The fact is that more Libyans support NATO than Donkey.

yet hes still there after 3 months of bombing

That's why we're winning. He called for a million-man march, and what did he get? Maybe seven-thousand.

why dont the rebels have one then ?

But did anyone notice the French and rebel etc. flags in the pictures?

Oh right..your trying to tell us now that this was actually an anti gadaffi protest , not a rally in support of him . Like i said earlier please fuck off with your bullshit .

I am a critical supporter of the rebellion.

your a NATO cheerleader and as big a headcase as Peter Dow

 

[phildwyer]

I am a critical supporter of the rebellion. NATO are effective but I fear they will do their best to compromise the post-Donkey future. Thus I'm somewhat pessimistic.

Hahaha. "Compromise the future." That's one way of putting it.

 

[Casually Red]

If more than three people are together they're shot on spot! .

is this after the Viagra crazed mercenaries rape them or before ?

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

YOU fuck off, you fascist wankstain.

And I was talking about my home-town Tripoli. And you're obviously an idiot cos I was trying to explain why the *pro-gaddafi* demo included foreign and rebel flags. That's not normal.

Question: Are you Libyan?

 

[dylans]

YOU fuck off, you fascist wankstain.

And I was talking about my home-town Tripoli. And you're obviously an idiot cos I was trying to explain why the *pro-gaddafi* demo included foreign and rebel flags. That's not normal.

Question: Are you Libyan?

What does him not being Libyan have to do with anything? It's a false argument and you know it because if taking a position on the politics of a country was reserved only for nationals of that country then that would rule out any of us having views on the politics of any nation on Earth. Also it is pretty clear from the demo above that a huge section of Libyan society supports Gaddafi (however much you absurdly wish to deny iT) they are Libyans too, do their views count or is your "nationals only" policy only confined to traitors who support the bombing of their own country?

 

[phildwyer]

And I was talking about my home-town Tripoli. And you're obviously an idiot cos I was trying to explain why the *pro-gaddafi* demo included foreign and rebel flags. That's not normal.

It wasn't exactly "normal" to support invaders of your own country last time I looked.

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

It's not an "argument". I know this CR person who lives in UK. . .

No, others (including lousy leftists who knew nothing befor feb 17) have a right. But so do the people involved. People who have had to put up with worse than NATO's efficient targetting of regime sites.

There's no such thing as right-wing anti-imperialism. We're talking about a military dictatorship. I don't believe they should have enlisted NATO, but I don't blame them and you can't call people traitors when most of them support it.

 

[free spirit]

What does him not being Libyan have to do with anything? It's a false argument and you know it because if taking a position on the politics of a country was reserved only for nationals of that country then that would rule out any of us having views on the politics of any nation on Earth. Also it is pretty clear from the demo above that a huge section of Libyan society supports Gaddafi (however much you absurdly wish to deny iT) they are Libyans too, do their views count or is your "nationals only" policy only confined to traitors who support the bombing of their own country?

and you talk of western imperialism.

Of course the views of people who's homes and families are slap bang in the middle of this, and who know the city from first hand experience of growing up there, should count more than the views of people with no personal knowledge of the situation, and nothing personally to loose or gain from it.

 

[free spirit]

It wasn't exactly "normal" to support invaders of your own country last time I looked.

yes, everyone living under a dictatorship should just stf up and accept their lot in life

 

[dylans]

and you talk of western imperialism.

Of course the views of people who's homes and families are slap bang in the middle of this, and who know the city from first hand experience of growing up there, should count more than the views of people with no personal knowledge of the situation, and nothing personally to loose or gain from it.

Would you say the same thing if someone from Libya posted on here condemning NATO bombing?

 

[dylans]

It's not an "argument". I know this CR person who lives in UK. . .

No, others (including lousy leftists who knew nothing befor feb 17) have a right. But so do the people involved. People who have had to put up with worse than NATO's efficient targetting of regime sites.

There's no such thing as right-wing anti-imperialism. We're talking about a military dictatorship. I don't believe they should have enlisted NATO, but I don't blame them and you can't call people traitors when most of them support it.

That was exactly the argument used by supporters of the invasion of Iraq. Exactly the same line argued by the likes of Johann Hari. I am no fan of Gaddafi anymore than I was a fan of Saddam. I hoped for Saddams overthrow by his own people as I hope for Gaddafi's overthrow by his own people. But then as now, I was and am opposed to Western intervention and regime change. This is no longer a revolution it is imperialism and you are deluding yourself if you think the regime that the West installs post Gaddafi will have anything to do with democracy or the interests of the Libyan people.

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

Third time lucky: a well-organised gov't demo obviously isn't anti-donkey. The reason, I claim, for the flags is because he's seeking mediation. That is all.

 

[dylans]

Third time lucky: a well-organised gov't demo obviously isn't anti-donkey. The reason, I claim, for the flags is because he's seeking mediation. That is all.

It has nothing to do with luck. NATO isnt bombing because it has found a new democratic conscience. It wants to install a compliant puppet state that will give it access to that nice top quality oil and allow a foothold in Africa for the West to compete with China. The interests of the Libyan people have nothing to do with this and by allying themselves with Western imperialism the rebels have sided with the enemies of Libyan self determination.

 

[dylans]

Daffy seems quite popular unless this clip is imagined, great speech too.

How do people who support NATO bombing think the rebels are going to be recieved by these people when they take Tripoli? Do they really think they are going to be recieved with open arms? They won't. There will be an insurgency like in Iraq and it will become a bloody mess for years to come.

When NATO installs the new regime how do those who support Western regime change think these people will be treated? With a sit down chat and a nice cup of tea? They won't. There will be brutal repression and Libya will have swapped one dictatorship for another, a nice pro Western client regime. Then the west will sign its new oil deals and turn a blind eye as supporters of Gaddafi are butchered.

 

[Casually Red]

YOU fuck off, you fascist wankstain.

And I was talking about my home-town Tripoli. And you're obviously an idiot cos I was trying to explain why the *pro-gaddafi* demo included foreign and rebel flags. That's not normal.

Question: Are you Libyan?

you talked a load of bizzare wank when this thread stated , you were exposed as a wanker then, and ran way , now your back and your still a wanker . And your rebel heroes are solely dependent upon 4 months of NATO bombing and weapons air drops. Popular my bollocks .
NATO mercenariexs in your own country , paticipating in a crusader war against your own nation . Traitors to your own nation, just like those who collaborated with previous colonialists . Thats why you have a colonial flag . I dont have to be born in Libya to see that . Traitors to your own nation . Dogs who''ll be eating out of the gutters of the EU and Qatar , fighting over whatever bones they throw you .
Dogs and traittors to your nation .

 

[ernestolynch]

It wasn't exactly "normal" to support invaders of your own country last time I looked.

 

[ernestolynch]

Is anyone here still disputing that?

"Divisive Cotton" and his neolib loon pals.

And Ibn Quisling above.

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

I never ran away. Not everyone can post on the net all the time.

The only traitors in Libya are the ones running the ancient regime, and its goons. End of. ___________

Returning to the war. . .From the start it's been somewhat opapue. As Zbigniew Brzezinski admitted, Washington has lacked coherence formulating its goals. The same is clearly true for the rest of its interests in the area. Let's not assume they know exactly what they're doing. They probably have more to lose than to gain from the POV of economic interests (Gaddafi expected their support by saying the rebels were Al Qaeda etc.).

The 'known unknown' is what would have happened *without* NATO? A failed state bordering 5 countries? A huge massacre allowed to take place? Against the demands of the Arab League? Consider the wider implications for US policy. It would have been hugely destabilizing! Would Syria still be pressured into trying to make concessions to the opposition(s)?

 

[Casually Red]

go back to your kennel and stop barking . Theres no scraps for you here you mangy NATO poodle .

 

[ernestolynch]

I never ran away. Not everyone can post on the net all the time.

The only traitors in Libya are the ones running the ancient regime, and its goons. End of. ___________

Returning to the war. . .From the start it's been somewhat opapue. As Zbigniew Brzezinski admitted, Washington has lacked coherence formulating its goals. The same is clearly true for the rest of its interests in the area. Let's not assume they know exactly what they're doing. They probably have more to lose than to gain from the POV of economic interests (Gaddafi expected their support by saying the rebels were Al Qaeda etc.).

The 'known unknown' is what would have happened *without* NATO? A failed state bordering 5 countries? A huge massacre allowed to take place? Against the demands of the Arab League? Consider the wider implications for US policy. It would have been hugely destabilizing! Would Syria still be pressured into trying to make concessions to the opposition(s)?

You imperialist lickspittle.

 

[ernestolynch]

go back to your kennel and stop barking . Theres no scraps for you here you mangy NATO poodle .

He's a mangy old cur, that lapdog alright.

 

[phildwyer]

The 'known unknown' is what would have happened *without* NATO?

Gadaffi would have crushed the rebels within days.

 

[Casually Red]

Gadaffi would have crushed the rebels within days.

yup-so-lutely

 

[ernestolynch]

Gadaffi would have crushed the rebels within days.

The armed people's militias would have done so, not him alone.