Libya - civil unrest & now NATO involvement

[binka]

raytheon must be delighted, just had on sky news ticker 110 tomahawks have been fired already - at a million dollars each

 

[dylans]

sorry but there is no comparison between this and the Iraq situation - at least not the situation as it existed when we attacked Iraq (as opposed to the introduction of the no fly zone there)

The result will be the same

In Libya a significant portion of the country has risen up to try to overthrow gadafi, is running a significant part of the country, is under military attack from Gadafi's forces, has been forced out of several areas they'd previously taken over, and have urgently been appealing for outside assistance to prevent Gadafi slaughtering them.

and a significant section of the population are rallying to Gaddafi. All the more so now the West is attacking. Which makes this a civil war and it is not the business of western world to take sides in that civil war. If Benghazi takes Tripoli and launches a pogrom on all black Libyans and foreign workers and starts hanging Gaddafi supporters from lampposts are we to expect the West to intervene again? The Shia of Iraq launched an uprising in Iraq as did the Kurds and the marsh Arabs. They called for Western support. By your standards that should be enough to justify the Iraq war. In which case you should come out and admit that Blair was right to invade.

n this situation the action is specifically authorised by a UN resolution, and is compliant with international law. In Iraq it wasn't.

By this standard you should support the UN invasion of Somalia (also launched as humanitarian intervention) After all that ended so well didn't it.?

 

[likesfish]

I will have an ounce of respect for this hypocritical bollocks when i see you calling for western airstrikes in Israel, Yemen and Saudi Arabia

well bringing our mechanics and air traffic controllers and the mechanics etc who fix most of the saudis tanks would be slightly more effective
not sure calling in air strikes because the police are on a shooting spree is going to help. when you've got an army out in the open diffrent matter

 

[free spirit]

Yes I can and do.

And with the UNSC resolutions, what about all the resolutions that the Israelis continue to ignore? Why have we not intervened on behalf of the Palestinians? What about the people of Bahrain? they too are demanding democracy and are being killed and brutalised as well as being invaded by not one but two foreign countries, Where do you stand on this issue? Do you support the UN intervening in Bahrain too

feel free to point us towards the UN resolution authorising the establishing of a no fly zone & the use of force to attack ground targets in Israel. I seem to have erased that resolution from my memory banks.

as far as I'm aware, bahrain hasn't got any territory that has actually been taken out of the control of the government, no planes have been used, and air attacks on individual plane clothed policemen would seem a bit unlikely to do anything other than cause large numbers of civilian casualties.

 

[goldenecitrone]

i dont think anyone here is particularly comfortable with the west bombing yet another country but im even less comfortable with what will happen if or when gadafi finally takes benghazi. the best thing to hope for i suppose is that blowing up most of his big weapons will make some saner people in the regime force gadafi out.

Indeed. I'm in the anti-Gaddafi, pro-people of Libya, anti-western Imperialism, pro-get it over as quickly as possible with the least bloodshed possible camp.

 

[quimcunx]

Indeed. I'm in the anti-Gaddafi, pro-people of Libya, anti-western Imperialism, pro-get it over as quickly as possible with the least bloodshed possible camp.

We need to ask Ed for longer taglines.

 

[dylans]

feel free to point us towards the UN resolution authorising the establishing of a no fly zone & the use of force to attack ground targets in Israel. I seem to have erased that resolution from my memory banks.

There are numerous resolutions declaring the occupation as illegal. Yet that doesn't stop the US vetoing every single resolution condemning Israeli settlement expansion. They did just this a few weeks ago.

 

[goldenecitrone]

There are numerous resolutions declaring the occupation as illegal. Yet that doesn't stop the US vetoing every single resolution condemning Israeli settlement expansion. They did just this a few weeks ago.

That pro-Gaddafi lobby group in Washington needs a serious kick up the arse.

 

[Deareg]

feel free to point us towards the UN resolution authorising the establishing of a no fly zone & the use of force to attack ground targets in Israel. I seem to have erased that resolution from my memory banks.

as far as I'm aware, bahrain hasn't got any territory that has actually been taken out of the control of the government, no planes have been used, and air attacks on individual plane clothed policemen would seem a bit unlikely to do anything other than cause large numbers of civilian casualties.

There are numerous Un resolutions against Israel, I hadn't realised that only the no fly ones were to be enforced, silly me, despite Israel using aircraft's as well as artillery and tanks to bomb civilian targets the UN has not imposed no fly zones. Why? Two foreign countries have invaded Bahrain, surely this in itself is reason for the UN to intervene?

 

[Lock&Light]

There are numerous resolutions declaring the occupation as illegal. Yet that doesn't stop the US vetoing every single resolution condemning Israeli settlement expansion. They did just this a few weeks ago.

Any evolution of democracy in the Arab world can only, inevitably, result in the slow demise of the Israeli Empire.

 

[Deareg]

Any evolution of democracy in the Arab world can only, inevitably, result in the slow demise of the Israeli Empire.

When the West ie the Americans are getting to choose the governments, How is that democracy? And do you really believe that the Americans will allow any situation to develop that will threaten Israel?

 

[Divisive Cotton]

That'll be the cruise missiles that are being tweeted about:

oh and just confirmed on R4

They've just admitted they have fired 120 cruise and tomahawk missiles at targets on the coast

 

[likesfish]

maybe if egypt gets a decent goverment and iran falls and the lebannon sorts itself out. with syria going as well then deals can be done .
hamas is lobbing rockets and getting air strikes in return.
don't see anyone very keen to take on an intergrated air defence system a highly trained air force for no oil and politcal orgs that cheered saddam and exported terrorism.

 

[free spirit]

There are numerous resolutions declaring the occupation as illegal. Yet that doesn't stop the US vetoing every single resolution condemning Israeli settlement expansion. They did just this a few weeks ago.

none of which authorise military action.

 

[LiamO]

.

 

[Lock&Light]

When the West ie the Americans are getting to choose the governments, How is that democracy? And do you really believe that the Americans will allow any situation to develop that will threaten Israel?

I think that the times they are a-changing.

I was young when Dylan first sung it, but it could be happening now.

Of course there are reactionary forces and they will never be beaten. I think, however, that they are now suffering a serious defeat.

 

[Deareg]

I think that the times they are a-changing.

I was young when Dylan first sung it, but it could be happening now.

Of course there are reactionary forces and they will never be beaten. I think, however, that they are now suffering a serious defeat.

I hope that you are right but I doubt it.

 

[treelover]

'They've just admitted they have fired 120 cruise and tomahawk missiles at targets on the coast'


They really don't do things by half, got to justify the expenditure i suppose...

 

[Lock&Light]

I hope that you are right but I doubt it.

No-one can be certain of anything. Ever.

 

[Deareg]

No-one can be certain of anything. Ever.

I have never believed in living in hope, history is all that you have to look at to see the outcome, in this latest case I do just hope that the West is made to pay a heavy price for this latest crime.

 

[weltweit]

I just hope there are not too many human shelds. I read earlier about Gaddafi forces taking the families of people possibly likely to defect into his barracks in Tripoli. Nasty.

 

[weltweit]

I have never believed in living in hope, history is all that you have to look at to see the outcome, in this latest case I do just hope that the West is made to pay a heavy price for this latest crime.

If you are in a house, and you are well armed, if robbers come to your unarmed neighbours house and starts raping pillaging and murduring them, I think you have a duty to do something about it! to go and protect your neighbour.. That is what is happenning here, there is no crime on behalf of the west, a crime would be if we had stood by and permitted the slaughter.

 

[Lock&Light]

I just hope there are not too many human shelds. I read earlier about Gaddafi forces taking the families of people possibly likely to defect into his barracks in Tripoli. Nasty.

It has been my experience of watching dictators fall, that they never seem to manage those kinds of insurance until it is already too late.

 

[Deareg]

I just hope there are not too many human shelds. I read earlier about Gaddafi forces taking the families of people possibly likely to defect into his barracks in Tripoli. Nasty.

I saw on the news thousands of his supporters surrounding his compound and offering themselves as human shields in the way the Serbs did so he has no need of hostages.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

Libyan government spokesman still claiming that the ceasefire was held up

Amusing moment when somebody's odd ring tone wouldn't stop

 

[dylans]

I just hope there are not too many human shelds. I read earlier about Gaddafi forces taking the families of people possibly likely to defect into his barracks in Tripoli. Nasty.

Really? What I saw was hundreds of people queuing up to VOLUNTEER as human shields. If this attack achieves one thing. it will be to strengthen Gaddafi's support base.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

I saw on the news thousands of his supporters surrounding his compound and offering themselves as human shields in the way the Serbs did so he has no need of hostages.

What a brave man the Colonel is by hiding behind unarmed civilians

 

[Deareg]

If you are in a house, and you are well armed, if robbers come to your unarmed neighbours house and starts raping pillaging and murduring them, I think you have a duty to do something about it! to go and protect your neighbour.. That is what is happenning here, there is no crime on behalf of the west, a crime would be if we had stood by and permitted the slaughter.

Non of this is applicable to the UN intervention of Libya so I don't know why you have raised it.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

If this attack achieves one thing. it will be to strengthen Gaddafi's support base.

Since when did military defeat strengthen a government?

 

[Lock&Light]

I saw on the news thousands of his supporters surrounding his compound and offering themselves as human shields in the way the Serbs did so he has no need of hostages.

Have you ever seen a thousand people come out of mini car? I have. On film.