Libertarian and Liberal

[nino_savatte]

Darios will argue that capitalism is anarchism until he's blue in the face. Apparently he has an MA to prove he's right.

Even the word "anarcho-capitalism" is misleading. What's his MA in...any ideas?

 

[Darios]

You really are living in a fantasy world aren't you?

[edit]

Here it is

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=8003068&postcount=218

Pathetic.

Quote me where I said what you claim I did.

 

[Blagsta]

Pathetic.

Quote me where I said what you claim I did.

You've really lost it haven't you?

 

[butchersapron]

Put him on ignore blagsta.

 

[Blagsta]

Naaah, I find his confused witterings amusing.

 

[nino_savatte]

its my choice and I'm not making lists just to give amusement to BP,NS,BA to witter about them.

I can discuss with you on any issue if you like (other than those 3 clowns) since you seemed to have retained some basic politeness.

Ah, he shuts down the discussion by applying mass-ignore...like someone else who used to hold similar views.

 

[Darios]

Ah, he shuts down the discussion by applying mass-ignore...like someone else who used to hold similar views.

I don't understand why you're (not necessarily you specifically NS) griefing Al-K - Al-K has clearly aligned themselves with agorist and mutualist thinking (SEK3 being the prime example), not market anarchism and miniarchism as I have done.

 

[Darios]

You've really lost it haven't you?

Apparently you have. The post you cite says nothing resembling what you claim.

 

[Blagsta]

So you deny having written about approaching anarchists in Sheffield and being rejected? You deny having posted several times about how the left reject the advances of your nutty buddies in the Libertarian party and how disappointing this is?

You're really losing it!

 

[nino_savatte]

I don't understand why you're (not necessarily you specifically NS) griefing Al-K - Al-K has clearly aligned themselves with agorist and mutualist thinking (SEK3 being the prime example), not market anarchism and miniarchism as I have done.

I can't say that I'm a fan of either mutualism or agorism (there isn't much to choose between either tbf). I don't really dig Proudhon...that's my choice. As for Al-K, he has taken his bat and ball and stormed off the pitch; that's his problem.

 

[Al Kahul]

if there was more discussion of ideas and less ad hominems it would be an awfull lot better place

 

[tarannau]

I doubt that somehow. Politeness doesn't make up for gross stupidity and willful ignorance.

 

[Al Kahul]

but it makes it more tolerable.

 

[tarannau]

No it doesn't in the slightest. What difference does a few expletives make in the greater scheme of things? It's a bulletin board, not a knitting circle.

 

[Al Kahul]

its a bulletin board not a football match nor a Playground .My guess is that you sympathise with the yobbish element and enjoy shouting people down to make up for a lack of argument

 

[Darios]

So you deny having written about approaching anarchists in Sheffield and being rejected?

Yes, because I didn't say that.

You deny having posted several times about how the left reject the advances of your nutty buddies in the Libertarian party and how disappointing this is?

Now this is closer to the truth.

 

[Blagsta]

This

It was the same deal with Sheffield's Anarchist social centre, 'Matilda'. I brought some people down who were sincerely interested in donating a lot of money to the centre - no strings. They were so disgusted with the dogmatism and bigotry of some of the resident lifestyle anarchists they didn't want anything else to do with it.

looks very much to me like what I said, but I can see how it can be interpreted another way.

I still think you're nuts to think that your views have anything in common with mine or anyone on the "left"

 

[butchersapron]

'No strings' - it's almost believable.

 

[bluestreak]

I argue that anarcho-capitalism / market anarchism is a form of anarchism.

Not wishing to get particularly involved in this bunfight but perhaps it would be more accurate to describe anarcho-capitalism as a branch of either a) capitalism; b) libertarianism, or c) both, as it is far more recognisably so than it is anarchist?

 

[Al Kahul]

to you perhaps . Anarcho Capitalism is definitely part of all 3.Indeed 'capitalism' is a description of activity by a left winger on right wingers .

I suspect it is really all about the 3 stoges trying to label anyone who isn't a socialsist as a NeoCon -it normally boils down to that.

 

[Al Kahul]

are Mutualists and Agorists anarchist enough for your definition ?

 

[danny la rouge]

to you perhaps . Anarcho Capitalism is definitely part of all 3.Indeed 'capitalism' is a description of activity by a left winger on right wingers .

I suspect it is really all about the 3 stoges trying to label anyone who isn't a socialsist as a NeoCon -it normally boils down to that.

"Anarcho" Capitalists (mis) appropriated both the term anarchist, and the term "libertarian". Both have a much older usage meaning non-authoritarian socialism.

The reason non-authoritarian socialists (like myself) dislike this newer usage is that it causes lack of clarity, and confusion. Much as if radical carpenters started calling their chairs 'tables', and this caught on in America.

Language changes, and that's usually fine, but where clarity is a casualty, expect resistance to the change.

 

[Al Kahul]

"Anarcho" Capitalists (mis) appropriated both the term anarchist, and the term "libertarian". Both have a much older usage meaning non-authoritarian socialism.

The reason non-authoritarian socialists (like myself) dislike this newer usage is that it causes lack of clarity, and confusion. Much as if radical carpenters started calling their chairs 'tables', and this caught on in America.

Language changes, and that's usually fine, but where clarity is a casualty, expect resistance to the change.

socialists had no problem using misusing the term 'fascist' and 'racist' though. Liberal means Tory in Australia, centrist in the Uk and Social democrat in the UK.So people use all sorts of terms.

 

[Al Kahul]

Ill stay in the Anglo American definition and you can stick with your french ones.

 

[Al Kahul]

you are a 'non authoritarian' socialist.does that mean you will not try and take my property by force given the chance and 'redistribute 'it ?

 

[nino_savatte]

are Mutualists and Agorists anarchist enough for your definition ?

No.

 

[nino_savatte]

you are a 'non authoritarian' socialist.does that mean you will not try and take my property by force given the chance and 'redistribute 'it ?

Socialism doesn't have to be authoritarian but one would suspect that you would try and link Stalin with socialism anyway.

 

[Blagsta]

socialists had no problem using misusing the term 'fascist' and 'racist' though.

Which socialists?

 

[Blagsta]

Ill stay in the Anglo American definition and you can stick with your french ones.

It's not Anglo American. It's American.

 

[danny la rouge]

socialists had no problem using misusing the term 'fascist' and 'racist' though. Liberal means Tory in Australia, centrist in the Uk and Social democrat in the UK.So people use all sorts of terms.

I'm very careful with the terms fascist and racist, as are many (but not all) 'lefties' on these boards. Your generalisation is unenlightening.

Liberal is, of course, a particularly unhelpful word. However, much can be learned from context (are we talking economics, or about a Guardian column).

Ill stay in the Anglo American definition and you can stick with your french ones.

American.

you are a 'non authoritarian' socialist.does that mean you will not try and take my property by force given the chance and 'redistribute 'it ?

Property is theft.

If you know what that means, you'll realise I'm not about to share out your CD collection, but that I am interested in ownership of the means of production.