LGBT in schools vs religious parents

[spanglechick]

I'm sure lots do, as I'm sure lots tell their children that being racist is OK, that vaccinations are wrong, that the earth is flat, but I doubt it's the norm, and how could it possibly be stopped? Even if these parents allow their children to attend sex education classes, it doesn't stop them instilling their own views on the children once they return home.

It’s about children being exposed to positive alternative voices and fact-based knowledge. I always say that the kids are entitled to believe what they want, but that the law of the land, the rules of the school, and the values in my classroom mean that if they are racist, homophobic etc, they will face consequences for verbal abuse/harassment, or for incitement of hatred.

And we cover sex and relationships topics regularly in drama - often without planning to. When it comes up, kids are given the facts at an age appropriate level, and have the chance to think about how they might feel in a particular situation. Let parents complain if they want. I won’t apologise for teaching.

 

[Wookey]

Do you often lie to make yourself feel superior?
Being a disingenuous prick is disgusting behaviour.

You're saying I'm making it up?

 

[Athos]

I'm sure lots do, as I'm sure lots tell their children that being racist is OK, that vaccinations are wrong, that the earth is flat, but I doubt it's the norm, and how could it possibly be stopped? Even if these parents allow their children to attend sex education classes, it doesn't stop them instilling their own views on the children once they return home.

No, of course it can't be stopped. But, at least preventing parents removing their children from sex education does mean they'll be exosed to some less harmful messages.

ETA: spanglechick put it better a minute ago (crossed with mine).

 

[Wookey]

You know, statements like this make you look like an awful hypocrite.

Explain please in detail the exact hypocrisy of which you're accusing me?

And it's not a statement when it has that curly sign at the end, we call that a "question" ...

 

[Saul Goodman]

You're saying I'm making it up?

I'm saying this part.

Do you often question abused people when they tell you they've been abused?

Was 100% disingenuous, and you knew exactly what you were doing, because you're the king of straw men and fallacious arguments. You're a very dishonest person.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Explain please in detail the exact hypocrisy of which you're accusing me?

Crying about your right to your rights, whilst ignoring or laughing in the face of anyone who wishes to believe in 'sky pixies'. You're a hypocrite.

 

[Wookey]

Crying about your right to your rights, whilst ignoring or laughing in the face of anyone who wishes to believe in 'sky pixies'. You're a hypocrite.

OK, I think there we realise that your reality is nothing like mine.

You do know science has occurred don't you?

 

[Red Cat]

I'm sure lots do, as I'm sure lots tell their children that being racist is OK, that vaccinations are wrong, that the earth is flat, but I doubt it's the norm, and how could it possibly be stopped? Even if these parents allow their children to attend sex education classes, it doesn't stop them instilling their own views on the children once they return home.

It's almost as though children have no capacity for independent thought, taking in a range of information, weighing up evidence, challenging their parents, having a different point of view.

 

[Saul Goodman]

OK, I think there we realise that your reality is nothing like mine.

You do know science has occurred don't you?

Does science remove people's right not to be ridiculed for their beliefs?
You're belittling people who believe in "Sky pixies". Do you not believe people's rights and beliefs should be respected, or is it just your rights and beliefs that should be respected?

 

[Saul Goodman]

It's almost as though children have no capacity for independent thought, taking in a range of information, weighing up evidence, challenging their parents, having a different point of view.

Indeed. It's almost as if these children don't have friends, televisions, internet or access to the outside world, and instead need a teacher in a school to inform them that gay people exist.

 

[tim]

No, it doesn't. They are Jews, and the demonstrative adjective confers nothing but specificity.

Try again Big Ben.

Look at your first post

Some bigoted Jews would rather leave the country than abide by our laws.

Why use the possessive adjective "ours" if you don't want to indicate that you see them not as fellow citizens, but rather as an alien community, to be grudgingly tolerated as long as they conform.

Why focus on marginal Jewish and Muslim groups , anyway. There is homophobia in other larger and more powerful religious groups, and in plenty of influential secular organisations.

I knows metaphorical dogwhistle, when my metaphorical lugs hear it

 

[Pickman's model]

Look at your first post



Why use the possessive adjective "ours" if you don't want to indicate that you see them not as fellow citizens, but rather as an alien community, to be grudgingly tolerated as long as they conform.

Why focus on marginal Jewish and Muslim groups , anyway. There is homophobia in other larger and more powerful religious groups, and in plenty of influential secular organisations.

I knows metaphorical dogwhistle, when my metaphorical lugs hear it

It's not a fucking dog whistle, he's walking up and down with fucking bagpipes

 

[Wookey]

Does science remove people's right not to be ridiculed for their beliefs?
You're belittling people who believe in "Sky pixies". Do you not believe people's rights and beliefs should be respected, or is it just your rights and beliefs that should be respected?

Beliefs can be ridiculed always, I believe the world is billions is years old, you go ahead and ridicule that if you want, I wish you luck.

I don't think I'm gay because of what I've been taught, I know I am because of my life experience ..thats the difference you're missing.

Superstitions should be treated with the contempt they deserve. Damaging superstitions that underlie religious child abuse even more so.

 

[Wookey]

Look at your first post



Why use the possessive adjective "ours" if you don't want to indicate that you see them not as fellow citizens, but rather as an alien community, to be grudgingly tolerated as long as they conform.

Why focus on marginal Jewish and Muslim groups , anyway. There is homophobia in other larger and more powerful religious groups, and in plenty of influential secular organisations.

I knows metaphorical dogwhistle, when my metaphorical lugs hear it

Bullshit. What laboured accusations.

"Our" laws cover orthodox Jews as well, that's why they are "our" laws.

And we're focusing on extremist religions because that's the subject of the thread, you dolt.

 

[Red Cat]

Indeed. It's almost as if these children don't have friends, televisions, internet or access to the outside world, and instead need a teacher in a school to inform them that gay people exist.

As I said previously the context is equality legislation, child protection and public health policy. That includes children's rights to information and guidance that supports their mental, emotional, and physical development. Their friends are under no legal obligation to provide this.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Beliefs can be ridiculed always, I believe the world is billions is years old, you go ahead and ridicule that if you want, I wish you luck.

I don't think I'm gay because of what I've been taught, I know I am because of my life experience ..thats the difference you're missing.

Superstitions should be treated with the contempt they deserve. Damaging superstitions that underlie religious child abuse even more so.

My mother knows God exists, because she prays to it, and occasionally it helps her. She doesn't believe the world was created in 7 days, because she's not a fucking idiot, but who the fuck are you to say that she should be treated with contempt!

 

[Pickman's model]

Bullshit. What laboured accusations.

"Our" laws cover orthodox Jews as well, that's why they are "our" laws.

And we're focusing on extremist religions because that's the subject of the thread, you dolt.

Whoa there. Extremist religion? No one's said that but you. Where'd you get this extremist bit from and how's it derived?

 

[Athos]

Does science remove people's right not to be ridiculed for their beliefs?
You're belittling people who believe in "Sky pixies". Do you not believe people's rights and beliefs should be respected, or is it just your rights and beliefs that should be respected?

Nobody has a right to have their belief respected by others; all that's due respect is their right to hold that belief without persecution.

 

[Wookey]

My mother knows God exists, because she prays to it, and occasionally it helps her. She doesn't believe the world was created in 7 days, because she's not a fucking idiot, but who the fuck are you to say that she should be treated with contempt!

Bless your mum, but she's a misguided, superstitious relic. So is mine. Can't pretend otherwise. If her superstitions affect only herself then leave well alone. But when her choices affect the healthy development of her children, I would object.

FGM.... Sincerely held superstitious belief held by some parents because of their cultural upbringing. None of our business, eh?

 

[tim]

OK, I think there we realise that your reality is nothing like mine.

You do know science has occurred don't you?

I do know that. I also know that beyond physics there is metaphysics.

I'm not a scientist, are you? I ask because I spend my Sunday mornings sitting in a Quaker meeting with a fair sprinkling of Friends from a scientific backgrounds including a professor of applied physics and someone who spends their week messing about with subatomic particles. What do you think they have missed?

 

[Saul Goodman]

Bless your mum, but she's a misguided, superstitious relic. So is mine. Can't pretend otherwise. If her superstitions affect only herself then leave well alone. But when her choices affect the healthy development of her children, I would object.

Would you object to vegan parents insisting their children eat a vegan diet?

FGM.... Sincerely held superstitious belief held by some parents because of their cultural upbringing. None of our business, eh?

You're at it again! You just can't help yourself, can you

 

[8ball]

It's not a fucking dog whistle, he's walking up and down with fucking bagpipes

Do I sense a latent antipathy towards the Scotch?

<gets coat>

 

[Wookey]

I do know that. I also know that beyond physics there is metaphysics.

I'm not a scientist, are you? I ask because I spend my Sunday mornings sitting in a Quaker meeting with a fair sprinkling of Friends from a scientific backgrounds including a professor of applied physics and someone who spends their week messing about with subatomic particles. What do you think they have missed?

I'm a social scientist by education.

I like Quakers, you can be an atheist Quaker if you want, seems fairly open minded, and they're not generally homophobic unlike every other official religion I've ever looked at. Good, if telling choice.

 

[8ball]

I'm not a scientist, are you? I ask because I spend my Sunday mornings sitting in a Quaker meeting with a fair sprinkling of Friends from a scientific backgrounds including a professor of applied physics and someone who spends their week messing about with subatomic particles. What do you think they have missed?

Biology, possibly.

 

[tim]

Bless your mum, but she's a misguided, superstitious relic. So is mine. Can't pretend otherwise. If her superstitions affect only herself then leave well alone. But when her choices affect the healthy development of her children, I would object.

FGM.... Sincerely held superstitious belief held by some parents because of their cultural upbringing. None of our business, eh?

Issuing blessings is hardly in keeping with the viewpoint expressed in your other posts. Unless you know that you are the One. I suppose.

 

[Wookey]

Would you object to vegan parents insisting their children eat a vegan diet?

What harm would that do to the healthy development of that child?

 

[Wookey]

Issuing blessings is hardly in keeping with the viewpoint expressed in your other posts. Unless you know that you are the One. I suppose.

It was a conscious irony mate.

I'm wasted here sometimes.

 

[8ball]

What harm would that do to the healthy development of that child?

It would depend on the nature of the diet.
Assuming there were no negative consequences for the welfare of the child, I think most people would expect the State to butt out.

 

[Poot]

Are we worried that a pork chop would feel victimised by the vegan parents now? I don't think there's an equivalence here.

 

[8ball]

Are we worried that a pork chop would feel victimised by the vegan parents now? I don't think there's an equivalence here.

I don't think humans can give birth to pork chops.