Should parents have the right to home-educate their child without sending them to school or informing the state?

[Seventy-seven]

That's not what I wrote at all ffs

Thanks for clarifying. When you wrote that "So generally, unless there's a really good reason for them not to, a child should attend a school", what did you mean then? Who decides whether or not there's a good reason?

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I understand your position: state goons should kick down the doors of the weirdos and freaks.

I don't know about state goons. I prefer the personal touch you only get with hired goons.

 

[BigMoaner]

Please assume that nobody has good reason to believe (or suspect) that the parents may fail to discharge their statutory responsibility to ensure that their child is properly educated, or may neglect or harm or abuse their child. That is a different scenario and I don't think anyone would disagree that public officials should have the right to require access to the child in those circumstances.

I have posted another poll asking a question about whether a woman should have the right to give birth and look after her baby without informing medics or the state?

Thank you to everyone who has voted in either poll.

you do not stand under me.

 

[BigMoaner]

Never mind home education. Where's the option for get them mining bitcoin all day and see how the man likes that?

they need gains, bro.

 

[existentialist]

The Nazis banned home education in 1938. They made school attendance compulsory. It is still compulsory in Germany.
So my advice would be that anyone who views Nazism as the way forward should vote "No" in this poll.

Not doing something "because the Nazis did it" is just about the wrongest reason for doing (or not doing) anything.

 

[existentialist]

Thanks for clarifying. When you wrote that "So generally, unless there's a really good reason for them not to, a child should attend a school", what did you mean then? Who decides whether or not there's a good reason?

Do you think you're Perry fucking Mason, or something?

 

[kebabking]

A lot of people home ed their children because they have SEN and aren't able to manage mainstream and there is no alternative provision. This is a huge problem, there are thousands of familes like this, growing before Covid and massive now. My daughter can't manage mainstream and there is nowhere for her to go, no support in school, no EHCP yet, no suitable school with places. Our local hospital school for those with medical needs including anxiety has been full since the beginning of the academic year. The most vulnerable people in our socirty, children with disabilities are treated shockingly. I am off work today because my child cannot get into school, I want to work, my child wants to go to school, we didn't choose this.

You're not arguing that you should have the freedom to do whatever the hell you like with your children, you're arguing the very opposite, that the state (wider community) should honour their own commitment and legal requirement to provide a setting for your child that meets their needs - and that in failing to do so, they are denying their right to an education.

You're arguing the very opposite of what our opening troll/nutter is arguing.

Strength to you by the way, I hope that comes through in my words, and if it doesn't, my apologies.

If you think we might be able to help at all, ping me and I'll ask Mrs K to have a looksie and see if she's any suggestions.

 

[xenon]

This one’s easy. Yes, to the first, no to the second.

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

I didn't introduce the Nazis or call anyone a Nazi. If someone thinks removing the right to home-educate without state interference leaves the door open to pro-Nazi indoctrination, they should be informed that the actual real Nazis (not some imaginary Nazis that foolish one-liner posters on the internet may have strutting about in their heads) banned home education and made school attendance compulsory.

Why would a Nazi state allow home education when they need your child at school in order to indoctrinate them into being Nazis? That is a different situation than the one where pro-Nazi parents keep their kids out of liberal state run schools in order to give them a Nazi education. Can't you even work that out for your self?

 

[mojo pixy]

Thanks for clarifying. When you wrote that "So generally, unless there's a really good reason for them not to, a child should attend a school", what did you mean then? Who decides whether or not there's a good reason?

Parents, families, healthcare professionals, social workers .. a kind of 'multidisciplinary approach' if you will. Kind of like what we have now then?

 

[Red Cat]

You're not arguing that you should have the freedom to do whatever the hell you like with your children, you're arguing the very opposite, that the state (wider community) should honour their own commitment and legal requirement to provide a setting for your child that meets their needs - and that in failing to do so, they are denying their right to an education.

You're arguing the very opposite of what our opening troll/nutter is arguing.

Strength to you by the way, I hope that comes through in my words, and if it doesn't, my apologies.

If you think we might be able to help at all, ping me and I'll ask Mrs K to have a looksie and see if she's any suggestions.

I don't agree with him at all, of course.

I am pointing out to the anti home educators that its more complex than that rather prejudicial view. One that I might have had some sympathy towards before I had personal experience of there not being any help.

Its not the thread for personal stories anyway, we are just very despairing and we didn't choose any of it.

I'll get in touch if i think you can help, thank you. The LAs around Birmingham seem better served, its pretty bad here. All we need is a small school with a mix of students and well trained staff. It shouldn't be too much to ask for.

 

[Poot]

I don't have much time so I'll just say the following: listen to Red Cat. Red Cat's posts will teach you something.

 

[Nylock]

So my advice would be that anyone who views Nazism as the way forward should vote "No" in this poll.

lol

 

[Seventy-seven]

I don't have much time so I'll just say the following: listen to Red Cat. Red Cat's posts will teach you something.

Red Cat is talking about state schooling being poorer quality than some parents who want it would like. It is.

This poll is about those who want home education rather than school provision whether state or private.

Attitudes to school vary a lot among HE parents. Some would use school if school were a teensy bit better, or if in their view state schools were to live up to the state's own promises about them, or if state schools were to live up to what (again in their view) the state "should" provide. As far as other HE parents are concerned, the state can stick its schools up its arse, and so can the private sector.

 

[Thora]

Personally I think the laws around home education are about right at the moment.
They balance a parent's right/responsibility to provide the best education for their child with the child's right to an education.
Lots of schools are absolute shit and the school system totally fails a large proportion of children.
I'm happy as a parent to respond to the LA's enquiries to establish my child is receiving a suitable education. There's a recognition at the moment that the 'national curriculum' isn't the only or best way to educate a child, and a suitable education can take many forms.
If a child isn't receiving a suitable education at home, the LA can take action to return the child to school.

The bigger problem at the moment in my opinion are unregistered schools, usually religious. Parents can claim a child is home educated but then send them to one of these unregistered schools and there is no oversight by LAs or Ofsted. There's a loophole that means if children only receive religious instruction, it isn't counted as a school.

 

[ItStillWontWork]

Home education, yes. Without informing the state? Big no.

 

[Red Cat]

Personally I think the laws around home education are about right at the moment.
They balance a parent's right/responsibility to provide the best education for their child with the child's right to an education.
Lots of schools are absolute shit and the school system totally fails a large proportion of children.
I'm happy as a parent to respond to the LA's enquiries to establish my child is receiving a suitable education. There's a recognition at the moment that the 'national curriculum' isn't the only or best way to educate a child, and a suitable education can take many forms.
If a child isn't receiving a suitable education at home, the LA can take action to return the child to school.

The bigger problem at the moment in my opinion are unregistered schools, usually religious. Parents can claim a child is home educated but then send them to one of these unregistered schools and there is no oversight by LAs or Ofsted. There's a loophole that means if children only receive religious instruction, it isn't counted as a school.

I agree, I think it's about right too, it's a good balance and currently there's an openness to what's accepted as a suitable education, but of course it's right that a parent provides some evidence for that.

 

[Seventy-seven]

Personally I think the laws around home education are about right at the moment.
They balance a parent's right/responsibility to provide the best education for their child with the child's right to an education.
Lots of schools are absolute shit and the school system totally fails a large proportion of children.
I'm happy as a parent to respond to the LA's enquiries to establish my child is receiving a suitable education. There's a recognition at the moment that the 'national curriculum' isn't the only or best way to educate a child, and a suitable education can take many forms.
If a child isn't receiving a suitable education at home, the LA can take action to return the child to school.

The bigger problem at the moment in my opinion are unregistered schools, usually religious. Parents can claim a child is home educated but then send them to one of these unregistered schools and there is no oversight by LAs or Ofsted. There's a loophole that means if children only receive religious instruction, it isn't counted as a school.

Going by your first sentence, you should vote "YES" in this poll. Yes, parents do have to tell a school if they've decided to remove their child from a school (which they can do with immediate effect) to begin home education, and perhaps I should have referred to that, but that's not the kind of "informing the state" that I meant. And in any case, parents who don't send their children to school in the first place do NOT have to inform the state that they are home educating. That is the law as it stands. So if the LA doesn't know a family is home educating they may well not make any enquiries, and those HE families are not breaking the law in remaining under the LA's radar. It is perfectly legal in this country for parents to HE their children all the way through their childhood without telling the state that they're doing so. That's the law at the moment. If you think that position is OK, you should vote "YES".

Be aware that the national curriculum doesn't have to be followed in private schools, and nor are private schools subject to inspections by Ofsted or LAs. (They have a different system. Yep this is called segregation.)

As for unregistered schools, they are illegal and they are mostly religious and the authorities often turn a blind eye. Being only religious doesn't exempt them from being legally countable as a school, even if some bods at LAs believe it does or they affect to. Some are obviously schools, operate full-time, run classes in classrooms, have curricula, etc. etc. Some of them don't even use English (or Welsh or Scottish Gaelic!) as their medium of instruction.

 

[Seventy-seven]

I agree, I think it's about right too, it's a good balance and currently there's an openness to what's accepted as a suitable education, but of course it's right that a parent provides some evidence for that.

I think it's about right Are you aware that it's perfectly legal for HE parents who never send their children to school not to inform the authorities that they are home educating? That is the legal position at the moment. Are you in favour of that continuing, or are you in favour of new legislation that would require compulsory registration? If the former, you should vote "YES" in this poll.

I should have perhaps mentioned in the blurb the difference between always HEing and only HEing after you withdraw a child from school. Apologies for that. Probably about two-thirds of the HE families I've known have never sent their children to school.

 

[Red Cat]

I think it's about right Are you aware that it's perfectly legal for HE parents who never send their children to school not to inform the authorities that they are home educating? That is the legal position at the moment. Are you in favour of that continuing, or are you in favour of new legislation that would require compulsory registration? If the former, you should vote "YES" in this poll.

I am aware of that yes. I am in favour of it. Anyone who knows anything about child protection will be in favour of it. That's not you.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Be aware that the national curriculum doesn't have to be followed in private schools, and nor are private schools subject to inspections by Ofsted or LAs. (They have a different system. Yep this is called segregation.)

Half are inspected by Ofsted, the others by the Independent Schools Inspectorate.

Find out from the school which organisation inspects them. Half of all independent schools are inspected by Ofsted. The Independent Schools Inspectorate inspects schools that are members of the associations that form the Independent Schools Council. LINK

 

[Thora]

As for unregistered schools, they are illegal and they are mostly religious and the authorities often turn a blind eye. Being only religious doesn't exempt them from being legally countable as a school, even if some bods at LAs believe it does or they affect to. Some are obviously schools, operate full-time, run classes in classrooms, have curricula, etc. etc. Some of them don't even use English (or Welsh or Scottish Gaelic!) as their medium of instruction.

Ofsted certainly believe that they can't regulate settings such as yeshivas that only teach a narrow religious curriculum as they don't meet the definition of a school.

https://www.thejc.com/family-and-education/all/new-schools-bill-introduces-move-to-regulate-yeshivot-69CkyWZ7VHltmUyuJImA5Q

 

[Thora]

I think it's about right Are you aware that it's perfectly legal for HE parents who never send their children to school not to inform the authorities that they are home educating? That is the legal position at the moment. Are you in favour of that continuing, or are you in favour of new legislation that would require compulsory registration? If the former, you should vote "YES" in this poll.

I should have perhaps mentioned in the blurb the difference between always HEing and only HEing after you withdraw a child from school. Apologies for that. Probably about two-thirds of the HE families I've known have never sent their children to school.

I'm aware that parents don't have to register their children as home educated. Local Authorities do have a right though to make enquiries when they become aware that a child in their area isn't attending school.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Home schooling sounds a great thing which I would support in principle.

Sadly all of the people I have met who actually do it in the UK have been religious zelots seeking to indoctrinate their kids or nutters.

My sister home educates her son, but not her daughter so it isn’t for ideological reasons. Just my nephew has SEN that my sister felt weren’t being met.

 

[Thora]

If a home educating parent admitted to treating their children in the way schools do - restricting their use of the toilet, making them read in silence instead of having a break, not giving them enough time to eat a meal, not allowing them to sit down to eat or making them stand outside in the rain to eat, punishing them by keeping them in isolation for the day writing out the same poem over and over again, punishing them for fidgeting or not making eye contact, failing to prevent violence against them from other children - the LA would have safeguarding concerns.

 

[Storm Fox]

If a home educating parent admitted to treating their children in the way schools do - restricting their use of the toilet, making them read in silence instead of having a break, not giving them enough time to eat a meal, not allowing them to sit down to eat or making them stand outside in the rain to eat, punishing them by keeping them in isolation for the day writing out the same poem over and over again, punishing them for fidgeting or not making eye contact, failing to prevent violence against them from other children - the LA would have safeguarding concerns.

If that were me, I'd be writing poems all the time. That's terrible it must put a lot of additional stress and pressure on neuro-diverse children; they have enough problems already from bullying and feeling they don't fit in.

 

[A380]

My sister home educates her son, but not her daughter so it isn’t for ideological reasons. Just my nephew has SEN that my sister felt weren’t being met.

Again, I know it’s a valid option for many people in that position and I hope it works for your sister’s family.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Again, I know it’s a valid option for many people in that position and I hope it works for your sister’s family.

Tbh I think she’d rather not be doing it. She coincidentally got paid off from a job at the same time that his mainstream school were talking about sending him to a special school. She felt that would be worse for his long term prospects and didn’t agree with that course of action so started home schooling. And she’s bright enough to. Always straight A with about 3 degrees under her belt (she did the psychology one as a hobby lol).

 

[krink]

Only once the child is 21 years old or develops a third eye.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

I’m certainly glad that it’s not compulsory to home educate your kids…