Lampedusa boat disaster: Divers recover more bodies

[likesfish]

That doesnt include the poor sods who try to cross the sahara on foot.
The rather dubious british gov scheme to bribe mirgants to go home home which is cheaper than a forced deportation is probably ome of the most effective gov aid programmes ironically because it targets an individual with a few grand and a plan much better than giving 70 million to a goverment to spend on a fighter jet

 

[eatmorecheese]

Africa seems very resistant to change. While China and perhaps India are pulling themselves up by their bootstraps.

I'd argue that Africa, ahead of any other region of the world, has had to accept every new development theory, every new half-baked nostrum and a whole world more pity (an insulting emotion if you are subjected to it). Rather than being resistant to change, imposed external change has historically devastated the continent. Recent high economic growth rates, despite the corruption of their elites, just prove the sheer dynamism in many parts of the continent.

But when even the elites in African states have so little faith in their own states that, rather than invest locally, they ship their dollars abroad, why should their people have any faith in building stability at home?

Bootstraps aren't the issue. It's hard to focus on your bootstraps when the IMF and corrupt rulers are standing on your neck.

The diaspora will continue to grow.

 

[weltweit]

Another boat disaster heading for Lampedusa..

Migrant boat capsize leaves 27 dead in Mediterranean
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24499890

At least 27 people died when a boat carrying more than 200 migrants capsized in the Mediterranean, Malta's prime minister has confirmed.
Italian and Maltese ships - backed by helicopters - were scrambled to the scene and are searching in darkness.
Maltese PM Joseph Muscat said 203 people had so far been rescued.
The boat capsized 120km (70 miles) off Lampedusa, an Italian island where more than 300 African migrants drowned when their vessel went down last week.

 

[8115]

Alleging on C4 news now that survivors say that Libyan military shot the boat and panic resulting capsized it. This is so sad. I also saw on the news earlier in the week that the next presidents of the EU, Greece and Italy have said that 2014 will be the year they try and tackle this problem.

 

[yield]

*bump*
Couldn't see this posted anywhere else?

Hundreds of migrants believed to have drowned off Libya after boat capsizes
Guardian. 15 April 2015

The deaths, if confirmed, would add to the soaring numbers of migrants lost at sea: the IOM estimates that up to 3,072 migrants died in the Mediterranean in 2014, compared with an estimate of 700 in 2013. But even those figures could be low. The IOM estimates that since 2000 more than 22,000 migrants have lost their lives trying to reach Europe.

The latest tragedy came as Italian authorities said about 8,500 migrants had been rescued at sea between Friday and Monday, reigniting a debate in Italy about whether the country has a duty to house all new arrivals.

Record number of migrants expected to drown in Mediterranean this year.

"8,500 migrants had been rescued at sea between Friday and Monday" Over eight thousand people rescued in four days!

How many thousands of lives lost.

 

[Pickman's model]

*bump*
Couldn't see this posted anywhere else?

Hundreds of migrants believed to have drowned off Libya after boat capsizes
Guardian. 15 April 2015

Record number of migrants expected to drown in Mediterranean this year.

"8,500 migrants had been rescued at sea between Friday and Monday" Over eight thousand people rescued in four days!

How many thousands of lives lost.

how many thousands yet to try the crossing

 

[Pickman's model]

Alleging on C4 news now that survivors say that Libyan military shot the boat and panic resulting capsized it. This is so sad. I also saw on the news earlier in the week that the next presidents of the EU, Greece and Italy have said that 2014 will be the year they try and tackle this problem.

anything further on this?

 

[yield]

how many thousands yet to try the crossing

Hundreds of thousands? Maybe millions?

 

[ChrisD]

astonishing how low down the new order these stories are.
I've never swam in the Mediterranean but millions of Brits do go there.... will the thought of all this misery put first world folk off their holiday pursuits?

 

[peterkro]

Am I the only who feels guilty about this?I feel I could do something to help but I don't know what. (I certainly hope I'm not alone)

 

[dylanredefined]

Am I the only who feels guilty about this?I feel I could do something to help but I don't know what. (I certainly hope I'm not alone)

Well unless you can turn which ever bit of africa they are coming from into a 1st world country not a lot you can do.

 

[Flavour]

astonishing how low down the new order these stories are.
I've never swam in the Mediterranean but millions of Brits do go there.... will the thought of all this misery put first world folk off their holiday pursuits?

why would people stop going on holiday to the Med? i don't think these stories will put anyone off. Millions of people live along the coast of the Med and swim in it regularly. The increasing number of migrant crossing attempts and where Brits go on holiday are, as far as I can see, completely unrelated. if anything, going on holiday to Lampedusa and injecting some money into the local economy might help matters. the problem won't go away if we ignore it. in fact, it will get worse.

 

[ChrisD]

Am I the only who feels guilty about this?I feel I could do something to help but I don't know what. (I certainly hope I'm not alone)

I get depressed at the lack of coverage in the media. I get angry at our govt saying "rescue efforts will only encourage more" , I dont' like the thought of swimming in water that 400 people have recently drowned in (although the Med is huge!!), I feel powerless under the forces of globalism and international capitalism.

 

[likesfish]

People domt attempt to walk to europe in search of the dole they are feeling war or a lifetimes conscription in the eritrian military

 

[Teaboy]

Fuck knows what can be done about all this. Clearly there needs to be far more safety patrols to stop people drowning, but medium to long term solutions?

 

[brogdale]

This just gets worse and worse.

 

[red & green]

What is currently happening in Libya is dreadful - if you are going to bomb a country back to the Stone Age - expect migrants -

 

[nino_savatte]

What is currently happening in Libya is dreadful - if you are going to bomb a country back to the Stone Age - expect migrants -

Refugees, they're called refugees.

 

[not-bono-ever]

boots on teh ground here- I know its a bit shitty in Libya, but I can see the NATO lot gtetting stuck in here, if only to stop any more boats getting out. The Italians have previous on this when they blockaded Durres and escapoe routes during the Albanian Economic collapse back in the day. Libya is not the same obvs, but I can see something happening to stop more departees

 

[Casually Red]

Well unless you can turn which ever bit of africa they are coming from into a 1st world country not a lot you can do.

Instead the powers that be turned the most developed , Libya , into another Somalia . Meaning its no longer a destination were many of these people can be absorbed and find work . And is now a lawless hub for people trafficking instead . That no longer invests in African economic and infrastructure projects either . And because of the massive flow of arms and jihadists flowing out of it to other countries and destabilising them makes the refugee problem even worse again .

Western liberals are directly responsible for this tide of human misery that's only getting worse .

 

[likesfish]

Tbf the west was happy to sell stuff to gadaffi as long as he gave up
* giving cash and guns to just about anyone.
* trying to overthrow his neighbours
* wmds
Which he did
Keeping the oppression and corruption to Saudi levels.
* unfortunately his subjects no longer fancied being ruled by him anymore and he responded with extreme violence having no allies and lots of people with long memories he got his just deserts.

 

[Casually Red]

Tbf the west was happy to sell stuff to gadaffi as long as he gave up
* giving cash and guns to just about anyone.
* trying to overthrow his neighbours
* wmds
Which he did
Keeping the oppression and corruption to Saudi levels.
* unfortunately his subjects no longer fancied being ruled by him anymore and he responded with extreme violence having no allies and lots of people with long memories he got his just deserts.

No he didn't . Western backed jihadist insurgent groups made straight for the state armouries and started looting them , on the anniversary of their previous attempt to storm the Italian embassy over the prophet cartoons . His forces started blowing the armouries up from the air to stop them falling into terrorist hands . The western powers then announced he was killing everyone in sight , on the basis of some asshole just phoning the bbc and making up whatever story he felt like . That was swallowed without question and nodding dogs like yourself happily lapping it up . NATO then bombed Libya out of existence , just because it felt like it , allowing a heavily armed rabble to assume power over the rubble of NATO bombs .

It would have been over in days had it not been for NATO . And now when some nut walks into your local tesco with one of those looted weapons and mows everyone down in the name of whoever ,like happened just a short train journey from London a few months ago ,you can remember this comment and say something smug about just deserts or whatever . And a job well done .

Thousands of those poor sods bobbing around the Mediterranean are there directly and indirectly because of that massive crime of western adventurism . Tens of thousands more are dead because of it and will continue to die in large numbers . Those entire towns of black Libyans that have been cleansed , all those Libyans and black Africans lynched in the streets by those bums didn't get their just deserts any more than gaddaffi did . Or those latest 30 black Africans beheaded just the other day by the scum who overran it on the back of NATO , qatari and saudi bombs . Something that's become a regular occurrence in the brave new NATO created Libya of today . It's nothing to be smug or triumphant about , whether it's yourself or Hilary Clinton crowing about the great victory .

The worst thing is this was all perfectly foreseeable and was warned of beforehand . But it matters not a jot . It's just more dark people . And because of attitudes like the one you express which is common in all quarters from left to right its going to keep on happening sadly .

 

[red & green]

Refugees, they're called refugees.

I think you will find when they get here takes a lot of appeals for that to be the case - oh and if they spent any time in another euro country before getting here they will be sent back there eg Greece

There are no longer any realistic refugee quotas in the UK not since the last Somali concession

 

[SpookyFrank]

Clearly there needs to be far more safety patrols to stop people drowning, but medium to long term solutions?

Stop fucking about with other people's countries. Stop supporting dictators or juntas or just gangs of mad bastards for reasons of economic or political expediency.

In the meantime, provide people with a safe and lawful way to come to Europe if that's what they want or need to do. This would cut the people traffickers who keep sending these people to their deaths out of the equation. It would also mean that many people would arrive in Europe with more money to spend on taking care of themselves and establishing a new life, so they would be less dependant on charity or state handouts.

Something also needs to be done about the fact that so many migrants end up stranded in Greece, Italy and Spain even when they don't want to be there. Ideally give migrants the same freedom of movement as EU citizens, but failing that at least establish a fair set of quotas.

 

[nino_savatte]

I think you will find when they get here takes a lot of appeals for that to be the case - oh and if they spent any time in another euro country before getting here they will be sent back there eg Greece

There are no longer any realistic refugee quotas in the UK not since the last Somali concession

In my mind they are refugees. That's what they were called before someone decided the word 'migrant' should be used. This word effectively criminalises and dehumanises anyone who flees wars or natural disasters and fixes this presumed illegality in the mind of a media consumer. It's also misleading since a 'migrant' could be an immigrant or an emigrant. If you move across London, you're a migrant. If you move from Wigan to Hull to take up a new job, you're a migrant.

Interestingly, the term 'asylum seekers', which also carried negative connotations, appears to have been dropped in favour of the word 'migrant'. Once upon a time, it was splashed all over the tabloids and was often coupled with the words 'illegal' or 'fake'.

Language is power.

 

[weltweit]

Pretty shocking the recent news, hundreds more feared drowned. I think the EU should abandon its current approach and return to more extensive sea patrols, at least to reduce the number of disasters. I know that won't stop people from attempting the voyage but solving that is a longer term issue.

 

[DotCommunist]

foriegn ministers meet today to argue why they aren't taking anyone in

 

[nino_savatte]

foriegn ministers meet today to argue why they aren't taking anyone in

Such humanitarians.

 

[weltweit]

Surely while Europe is rich and many African countries poor and war-torn, people will want to migrate. The only long term solution (other than making Europe poor and war-torn) is to help many African countries become richer and more peaceful.

/stating the obvious since 1964

 

[red & green]

In my mind they are refugees. That's what they were called before someone decided the word 'migrant' should be used. This word effectively criminalises and dehumanises anyone who flees wars or natural disasters and fixes this presumed illegality in the mind of a media consumer. It's also misleading since a 'migrant' could be an immigrant or an emigrant. If you move across London, you're a migrant. If you move from Wigan to Hull to take up a new job, you're a migrant.

Interestingly, the term 'asylum seekers', which also carried negative connotations, appears to have been dropped in favour of the word 'migrant'. Once upon a time, it was splashed all over the tabloids and was often coupled with the words 'illegal' or 'fake'.

Language is power.

The language changes with the political agenda but the reality is vv tough for anyone coming to the UK and I say that as a child of immigrants - but the barefaced hypocrisy over Libya is something else - that country was ruined by NATO