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Just Stop Oil

Awareness raising usually comes before consciousness and activism; they're already winning you over.

If you say so. Perhaps if they stop me visiting my mum next week I’ll just divert to Parliament Square and harangue Michael Gove or something.

I mean if we just stop extracting stuff we can import more fracked LNG from the USA so that’s cool:

 
They seem to have a consistent supply of activists to put themselves on the line. I don't think they are trying to engage the likes of talk TV viewers, or even people on Urban. They want to attract and engage people that are willing to do this sort of action and are concerned about the immediate threat of climate change.

I don't feel the tactics will work, but maybe before I was less cynical I may have been tempted enough to join. Whilst there's plenty of outrage from the usual suspects, under the surface there are probably a lot of young people thinking they'll have some of that. Especially as there isn't much else going on.
 
I'm finding the "lock them up" stuff quite alarming. It's not surprising yet I didn't think there'd be so much of it. But I don't think they should block the roads. There are so many things they could do, if you're gonna risk a criminal record (or adding to it) for this, you might as well do something that's less alienating to ordinary people and aimed at the ruling classes instead, or something symbolic.
 
Great. Maybe you can explain how their tactic of blocking motorways is meant to get thousands of inconvenienced people lobbying the government to cave in to their demands? It's almost like they live in a bubble and don't know how most of society think and behave.
It's intended to cause inconvenience. If something doesn't cause inconvenience them it has zero effect. Imagine a strike that inconveniences no one. What's the point? Now while I might not be a fan of JSO, XR and IB and might not always agree with their tactics or politics (lack of) they at least understand the idea of fucking shit up. I'm surprised you don't understand this.
 
It's intended to cause inconvenience. If something doesn't cause inconvenience them it has zero effect. Imagine a strike that inconveniences no one. What's the point? Now while I might not be a fan of JSO, XR and IB and might not always agree with their tactics or politics (lack of) they at least understand the idea of fucking shit up. I'm surprised you don't understand this.

Strikes aren’t comparable because they work fundamentally due to a withdrawal of labour, not inconvenience (lots of strikes don’t affect the public at all). If inconvenience worked then strikers would remain at work on full pay and glue themselves to infrastructure in their time off.

Back when Greenpeace actually did stuff, they did direct action and were often successful, but they took direct action against relevant targets, got widespread media coverage, and widespread public support. They never blocked roads or tried to exert pressure by annoying or inconveniencing people.
 
Strikes aren’t comparable because they work fundamentally due to a withdrawal of labour, not inconvenience (lots of strikes don’t affect the public at all). If inconvenience worked then strikers would remain at work on full pay and glue themselves to infrastructure in their time off.

Back when Greenpeace actually did stuff, they did direct action and were often successful, but they took direct action against relevant targets, got widespread media coverage, and widespread public support. They never blocked roads or tried to exert pressure by annoying or inconveniencing people.
Widespread public support….

 
Strikes aren’t comparable because they work fundamentally due to a withdrawal of labour, not inconvenience (lots of strikes don’t affect the public at all). If inconvenience worked then strikers would remain at work on full pay and glue themselves to infrastructure in their time off.

Back when Greenpeace actually did stuff, they did direct action and were often successful, but they took direct action against relevant targets, got widespread media coverage, and widespread public support. They never blocked roads or tried to exert pressure by annoying or inconveniencing people.
Yes, strikes are based on a withdrawal of labour and these are effective when they directly impact on the bosses' business. But guess which strikes are most effective... those which affect infrastructure and inconvenience the public. That's why RMT, ASLEF and transport sections of Unite have the most clout these days and it's why miners and other workers' actions could lead to those inconvenient power cuts in the 70s.

Obviously, strikes are about a lot more than inconvenience, and there's probably lots to criticise JSO* for, but inconveniencing the public isn't it.

* I still have no clue about what chucking soup or beans at works of art is all about.
 
Yes, strikes are based on a withdrawal of labour and these are effective when they directly impact on the bosses' business. But guess which strikes are most effective... those which affect infrastructure and inconvenience the public. That's why RMT, ASLEF and transport sections of Unite have the most clout these days and it's why miners and other workers' actions could lead to those inconvenient power cuts in the 70s.

Obviously, strikes are about a lot more than inconvenience, and there's probably lots to criticise JSO* for, but inconveniencing the public isn't it.

* I still have no clue about what chucking soup or beans at works of art is all about.
Clearly with paintings it's beans a long way in front of cheese
 
Strikes aren’t comparable because they work fundamentally due to a withdrawal of labour, not inconvenience (lots of strikes don’t affect the public at all). If inconvenience worked then strikers would remain at work on full pay and glue themselves to infrastructure in their time off.

Back when Greenpeace actually did stuff, they did direct action and were often successful, but they took direct action against relevant targets, got widespread media coverage, and widespread public support. They never blocked roads or tried to exert pressure by annoying or inconveniencing people.
Did they fuck.
 
Did they fuck.

I have so many examples. How about the "Ban the burn" campaign, against incinerating toxic waste at sea?


"As one key element of a multi-pronged campaign, Greenpeace launched direct actions to alert the public to this polluting technology. The most successful action involved trailing the burnship, Vesta, to the North Sea burnsite with its flagship, Sirius. Campaigners boarded Vesta, chained themselves to the chimney, and hung a banner that read "Ban the Burn." They prevented an assault on the North Sea in true Greenpeace style—forcing the burnship back to shore with campaigners chained to its chimney. The media captured the action on film and in photographs which circulated to locations across the globe along with wire stories detailing the hazards associated with the use of the technology."

"This action strategy was combined with supporter mailings, newsletters, and door-to-door canvassing. Greenpeace also prepared scientific and technical documents and commissioned research to contribute to international debates on ocean incineration and the potential for reducing the types of waste commonly burned at sea at the source of generation."

"Support for ocean incineration plummeted in Europe during a London Dumping Convention scientific meeting in 1988 when the British Independent newspaper headline revealed that Greenpeace had uncovered a fundamental
flaw in ocean incineration theory. The article stated that the theory used to support incineration operations for 20 years had been discredited by new scientific evidence presented by Greenpeace at the meeting.
In the wake of this publicity, Greenpeace helped the Danish government draft a resolution to ban ocean incineration for submission to the London Dumping Convention. All Nordic nations and most South Pacific and Latin American signatories supported the resolution."

Capture.JPG
 
Any activist organisation as notable as Greenpeace is going to attract criticism worthy of an article on Wikipedia. That doesn't necessarily mean those criticisms reflect general public opinion. So which part of that article is relevant?
Bizarre that anyone would claim that Greenpeace didn’t face huge backlashes - pretty sure they were called “yogurt weaving hippies” etc - now it’s “tofu eating wokerati” of course.

Everyone attacking JSO here would have attacked Greenpeace back in the day. Very reminiscent of Republicans now praising MLK. These protests shift the narrative you lot just need to catch up.
 
Have you seen the popular media talking about the licensing of new fossil fuel extraction since these protests started?What has been licensed recently or is likely to be soon?
The Jackdaw gas field, for one:
I'm sure there's others, Jackdaw just stuck in my head as an example of how there seems to be some curse on the name of ACG publications.
Strikes aren’t comparable because they work fundamentally due to a withdrawal of labour, not inconvenience...
I have some bad news for you about what the effects of labour being withdrawn are.
 
Bizarre that anyone would claim that Greenpeace didn’t face huge backlashes - pretty sure they were called “yogurt weaving hippies” etc - now it’s “tofu eating wokerati” of course.

Everyone attacking JSO here would have attacked Greenpeace back in the day. Very reminiscent of Republicans now praising MLK. These protests shift the narrative you lot just need to catch up.

I don't remember claiming there was no backlash. You linked to a page talking about criticisms from academics and Nobel laureates. But I didn't find anything about the prevailing opinion of the general public.
 
I don't remember claiming there was no backlash. You linked to a page talking about criticisms from academics and Nobel laureates. But I didn't find anything about the prevailing opinion of the general public.
Platty Sage was making out that Greenpeace had the full backing of the general public which is obv bollocks. I’m glad you agree he’s wrong - should be everyone’s default position tbh.
 
The Jackdaw gas field, for one:
I'm sure there's others, Jackdaw just stuck in my head as an example of how there seems to be some curse on the name of ACG publications.

Did JSO get Jackdaw in the Daily Mirror or something?

I have some bad news for you about what the effects of labour being withdrawn are.

Affecting profits and shareholders isn't the same as causing inconvenience to the public. Most strikes don't inconvenience the public. Certain one will, but as I said if inconvenience to the public is the method of achieving strike demands, that doesn't actually need a strike and can be done in spare time while remaining on full pay. Why didn't the miners just keep working and block the roads and railways on their days off?
 
Affecting profits and shareholders isn't the same as causing inconvenience to the public. Most strikes don't inconvenience the public. Certain one will, but as I said if inconvenience to the public is the method of achieving strike demands, that doesn't actually need a strike and can be done in spare time while remaining on full pay. Why didn't the miners just keep working and block the roads and railways on their days off?
It isn't, but you never said "inconvenience to the public", you just said "inconvenience", and I still think all strikes, by definition, are pretty inconvenient to someone. Strikes are effective because they disrupt the economy, and blocking roads and railways also achieves that. And wasn't one of the major factors leading to the defeat of the miners' strike that it was isolated, which means that if railworkers had come out and caused more disruption/inconvenience, they would've been much more likely to win?

Christ, I have a tremendous amount of respect and admiration for those who stayed out in 84/85, but you'd think someone would hesitate a bit before going "why don't these JSO numpties use proper effective tactics that have been shown to work, like the ones that won the miners their famous victory in 1985?"
 
Bizarre that anyone would claim that Greenpeace didn’t face huge backlashes - pretty sure they were called “yogurt weaving hippies” etc - now it’s “tofu eating wokerati” of course.

I’m guessing the poster concerned wasn’t paying that much attention (or was yet to be conceived) during the 1980s.
 
I posted details about a successful Greenpeace protest that had widespread support of the public up thread, but everyone ignored it. No point in posting more examples.
 
It isn't, but you never said "inconvenience to the public", you just said "inconvenience", and I still think all strikes, by definition, are pretty inconvenient to someone. Strikes are effective because they disrupt the economy, and blocking roads and railways also achieves that. And wasn't one of the major factors leading to the defeat of the miners' strike that it was isolated, which means that if railworkers had come out and caused more disruption/inconvenience, they would've been much more likely to win?

Christ, I have a tremendous amount of respect and admiration for those who stayed out in 84/85, but you'd think someone would hesitate a bit before going "why don't these JSO numpties use proper effective tactics that have been shown to work, like the ones that won the miners their famous victory in 1985?"

That’s not what I’m saying is it.

The claim was made that strikes in general are effective due to disrupting and inconveniencing people, so JSO can be effective through the same tactics.

My point is if inconvenience is the key to strikes, why don’t strikers just cause inconvenience without striking and losing their pay? The reason they don’t is that JSO-style inconvenience is not the key to strikes.
 
That’s not what I’m saying is it.

The claim was made that strikes in general are effective due to disrupting and inconveniencing people, so JSO can be effective through the same tactics.

My point is if inconvenience is the key to strikes, why don’t strikers just cause inconvenience without striking and losing their pay? The reason they don’t is that JSO-style inconvenience is not the key to strikes.
Wot Serge actually said was:
It's intended to cause inconvenience. If something doesn't cause inconvenience them it has zero effect. Imagine a strike that inconveniences no one. What's the point?
Can you give an example of a successful strike that did not cause inconvenience? Also, you seem to reckon that JSO-style causing of inconvenience, which carries pretty much a guarantee of arrest, the likelihood of criminal charges, and the subsequent possibility of missing work and losing pay when dealing with the fallout of said criminal charges, has a higher cost to the causer than going on strike, and probably being able to claim strike pay through the union. I'm not sure you've thought this one through.
 
Pretty sure no members of the public were affected by the successful RR strikes recently:


No inconvenience, but certainly not zero effect.
Not in the short term, but if it continued for long enough I reckon the public would definitely notice if there was a shortage of aeroplane fan blades. It's like the successful Chep strikes - in the short term absolutely no-one gives a shit if workers at a pallet repair factory are working or not, if supermarkets and warehouse start finding that a shortage of pallets is meaning they can't load and unload stuff along their distribution chain then it very much would have quite a notable affect on the public.
 
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