Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
Oxford is a weird place. Oxford BLM posting that hook nosed Jewish bankers mural fits the bill.
Anyway, will Paula be there?
Anyway, will Paula be there?
STOP THE WAR COALITION MEETING OXFORD. 19/04/2022
- Thread starter Nigel
- Start date
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
I can see how Galloway remains with this person as an officer:
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
What I think is mistaken is for some posters to keep going on about the Azov battalion. From 2014 the way the Ukrainian state fought the war was partly using militias. Azov wasn't the only one. And this way of fighting the war in human rights terms was poor. This pre dated Zelenksky.
This report by Amnesty International on another militia- Aidar- concludes that whilst fighting the Russian separatists and regaining territory for Ukraine it also took to detaining people, beating them up and stealing from them. Complaints to police and authorities by the victims left a lot to be desired. The militia acted with a fair amount of impunity as long as it fought against separatists.
Ukraine: Abuses and war crimes by the Aidar Volunteer Battalion in the north Luhansk region - Amnesty International
In this briefing Amnesty International is calling on the Ukrainian authorities to bring Aidar and other volunteer battalions under effective lines of command and control, promptly investigate all allegations of abuses, and hold those responsible to account. View Report in EnglishDownload PDF
www.amnesty.org
Southlondon
The river's there for a reason
You almost seem to be constantly defending the Azov batallion and in denial that they are a white supremacist bunch who are responsible for the most appalling violence against people in the donbass region where they are based. The fact that russ it and also use dodgy militias does not takeaway from the fact that these armed fascists are undeniably vile bastards and will continue pose a danger to minorities after the war should they survive which I sincerely hope they don’t.What I think is mistaken is for some posters to keep going on about the Azov battalion. From 2014 the way the Ukrainian state fought the war was partly using militias. Azov wasn't the only one. And this way of fighting the war in human rights terms was poor. This pre dated Zelenksky.
This report by Amnesty International on another militia- Aidar- concludes that whilst fighting the Russian separatists and regaining territory for Ukraine it also took to detaining people, beating them up and stealing from them. Complaints to police and authorities by the victims left a lot to be desired. The militia acted with a fair amount of impunity as long as it fought against separatists.
Ukraine: Abuses and war crimes by the Aidar Volunteer Battalion in the north Luhansk region - Amnesty International
In this briefing Amnesty International is calling on the Ukrainian authorities to bring Aidar and other volunteer battalions under effective lines of command and control, promptly investigate all allegations of abuses, and hold those responsible to account. View Report in EnglishDownload PDF
They didn’t just take to ‘detaining people’ they tortured and murdered many of them as well.
Fascist don’t stop being fascist just because they are fighting a common cause with other fellow citizens and no one should make excuses for them.
ouirdeaux
Caring, Understanding, Non-judgemental Type
I have always opposed war in Ukraine, and have never even fantasised about starting even a minor argument in the region. As far as I'm aware, most people in Oxford have never been involved in that sort of thing either, although of course I have no access to their secret thoughts. I really think the one you should be targeting is Putin, because he has been rather keen for several months on the idea, as we can see from his actions.
Southlondon
The river's there for a reason
Some good news in the midst of all the horrors of the war
rekil
to menny cranks
Doesn't matter. Somewhat conveniently, loon analysis boils down to "all ukrainians = azov, therefore carnage, murder, rape, fridge pinching = good/doesn't happen/azov-are-doing-it-to-get-nato-in".
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
The Azov regiment will no doubt have suffered losses in Mariupol but it's National Militia and 'family' ,according to a recent interview that Sergei Korotkikh (Boatswain) and ex commander in the Azov battalion did, did are elsewhere "For example, Andrei Biletsky has 2,300 people in Kyiv alone. The backbones of the defense of Sumy and Chernihiv are Azov. In Kharkov and the Dnieper , two battalions led by Azov. Mariupol is the clearest example"
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
And how many examples are there, from Ireland to Palestine to Kurdistan and beyond, of the deaths of martyrs being something that successfully drives the next wave of recruitment for a cause? I would hope that the deaths of Azov members would be an exception, but I wouldn't like to bet on it.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
Symbolises that I don't accept the legitimacy of Apartheid puppet statelet 1$rael & see it as a backed and financed by America and other western imperialists & neo colonialists for their own exploitative interests!
Israel - Counterfire
Counterfire is a socialist organisation committed to building the biggest possible movements against a system that is creating more and more crisis and misery. Whether or not we get real change depends on wider struggles in society, it depends on mass movements, popular protests and on...
Is Israel Legitimate?
Under normal circumstances, you would never hear such a question asked about any other country’s legitimacy. However, due to Israel’s paranoia and its weighty clout in Washington, a new…
dancingwithpalestinians.wordpress.com
Article about Igor Kolomoisky Oligarch/mafia don and his militia from 2015. These militias formed the backbone of the ukr armed forces and numbered in the 1000's.
www.vox.com
We just got a glimpse of how oligarch-funded militias could bring chaos to Ukraine
Vox is a general interest news site for the 21st century. Its mission: to help everyone understand our complicated world, so that we can all help shape it. In text, video and audio, our reporters explain politics, policy, world affairs, technology, culture, science, the climate crisis, money...
www.vox.com
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
That wasn't necessarily Oxford BLM!
More others with weird conspiraloon reactionary ideas who became involved with TTIP!
There was also a lot of anti vaxx bollox that came to the forefront, thankfully more progressive elements in and around Oxford BLM did there best to counter this, however quite 'respected' figureheads involved considered 'professionals' as community activists still legitimise and push these ideas clandestinely!
Tbh, there were/are also pro/proto Zionist councillors and individuals in local Green Party who have made and played along with false allegations against Labour Left and other socialists/eco activists for their own opportunistic ends!
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
ДНР объявила о штурме «Азовстали» — последнего очага обороны Мариуполя Украинские власти говорят, что там укрывается тысяча мирных жителей — и на них сбрасывают сверхтяжелые бомбы — Meduza
18 апреля президент Украины Владимир Зеленский объявил, что Россия начала «битву за Донбасс», для которой сконцентрировала «очень значительную часть всей российской армии». Тем временем на юге-западе Донецкой области продолжаются бои за Мариуполь («сердце войны», по выражению украинского...
I don’t see anything good about this I'm afraid.
nogojones
spelling is overrated
That's all well and good, but can you see how it might be interpreted as pandering to antisemitic tropes?Symbolises that I don't accept the legitimacy of Apartheid puppet statelet 1$rael & see it as a backed and financed by America and other western imperialists & neo colonialists for their own exploitative interests!
Israel - Counterfire
Counterfire is a socialist organisation committed to building the biggest possible movements against a system that is creating more and more crisis and misery. Whether or not we get real change depends on wider struggles in society, it depends on mass movements, popular protests and on...www.counterfire.org
Is Israel Legitimate?
Under normal circumstances, you would never hear such a question asked about any other country’s legitimacy. However, due to Israel’s paranoia and its weighty clout in Washington, a new…
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Do you have chrome, should be able to get a translation in your browser?
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
Yeah
Ironically had this debate on Urban around a decade ago, mainly, if I can remember with Butcher's & Violent Panda; Zionism being only a minority position; history of Bund, Yiddisher movement etc. having mass following support among Jewish peoples! Also other groups such as many Orthodox Jews who don't accept it's legitimacy
Since then my position has become more accommodating, seeing two state solution, if only in the short term as the only recognisable way to build peace and stability in the region. Also to work with I$raeli trade unionists/labour movement and elements of peace movement to build unifying links and fraternity between Jewish people(s), Palestinians etc. and stability in middle east!
I think you are right and take your point.
I wouldn't necessarily use 1$rael among certain ordinances, however among politicos (or at least claiming to be) on here, think it's valid!
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nogojones
spelling is overrated
What does that word salad have to do with the question?
Ok, so why did you then go ahead and use it twice more in that post? Or does it now default to that in your spellcheck?
It's not a good look Nigel.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
That may be your perspective!
I'm sticking by mine!
APARTHEID 1$RAEL IS NOT A LEGITIMATE STATE!
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nogojones
spelling is overrated
So you're at ease with the fact that growing numbers of people take you for an antisemitic fool.
I've tried not to go in hard on this thread, because even though I have significant political differences with a lot of the StWC crew, I'd like to think that generally we're on the same side. I'm growing more concerned that I'm just deluded about that though the more I engage with them.
ska invita
back on the other side
i think you misunderstood Gramsci's post - the Aidar Volunteer Battalion that the Amnesty war crimes report is about are also Ukrainian, not Russian. I think Gramsci is saying "Why go on about Azov, they're barely as bad as the other Ukrainian battalions." Thats my understanding of his post.
ska invita
back on the other side
For me its not a Yeah But, its about being aware of fascist currents wherever they may be - all the more dangerous if they can act within the jurisdiction of the state and play an active role in the global fascist creep.
Thats why fascist elements deserve special mention...soldiers committing war crimes, like Aidar Volunteers no doubt have done, should be no surprise to anyone - war is a crime and creates criminals of soldiers, fast. Fascist ideologues have potential impact and influence way beyond the battlefield.
Personally I'm more scared of Marine Le Pen than Azov, but then I live in a country 20 odd miles away from France.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
The Aidar Battalion was disbanded, IIRC, back in 2015, so hardly surprising that they don't feature much in discussions now, whereas Azov is still around, although in a somewhat different form.
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