STOP THE WAR COALITION MEETING OXFORD. 19/04/2022

[chilango]

So you're at ease with the fact that growing numbers of people take you for an antisemitic fool.

I've tried not to go in hard on this thread, because even though I have significant political differences with a lot of the StWC crew, I'd like to think that generally we're on the same side. I'm growing more concerned that I'm just deluded about that though the more I engage with them.

People (like Nigel ) who use terms like "1$rael" are not on the same side as me.

Let's be quite clear...they are my enemies not my allies.

 

[nogojones]

For me its not a Yeah But, its about being aware of fascist currents wherever they may be - all the more dangerous if they can act within the jurisdiction of the state and play an active role in the global fascist creep.

Thats why fascist elements deserve special mention...soldiers committing war crimes, like Aidar Volunteers no doubt have done, should be no surprise to anyone - war is a crime and creates criminals of soldiers, fast. Fascist ideologues have potential impact and influence way beyond the battlefield.

Personally I'm more scared of Marine Le Pen than Azov, but then I live in a country 20 odd miles away from France.

In a perfect world Azov would never have existed. However it did and still does. To what degree the fascists have control over it and what degree they have in other areas of Ukrainian political life is questionable. For sure they're a problem and they need an eye kept on their activities and their influence lessened as much as possible.

Doing that in the middle of an invasion with an enemy that, on paper vastly outnumbers and outguns you is tricky, especially when the units in question seem to be at the sharp end of it.

I'd like to see them take a much reduced role, but how that is achieved in the present is tricky, to say the least.

 

[nogojones]

People (like Nigel ) who use terms like "1$rael" are not on the same side as me.

Let's be quite clear...they are my enemies not my allies.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt on it and tried to get him to clarify where his thinking was.

But, he doubled down and It turns out his thinking was right up his arse.

 

[Serge Forward]

Can someone add the Benny Hill theme tune pls

More likely to be the Hamlet cigar tune.

 

[hitmouse]

SO, WHO WENT! CAN WE GET A REPORTBACK!

 

[Gramsci]

Article about Igor Kolomoisky Oligarch/mafia don and his militia from 2015. These militias formed the backbone of the ukr armed forces and numbered in the 1000's.

We just got a glimpse of how oligarch-funded militias could bring chaos to Ukraine

Vox is a general interest news site for the 21st century. Its mission: to help everyone understand our complicated world, so that we can all help shape it. In text, video and audio, our reporters explain politics, policy, world affairs, technology, culture, science, the climate crisis, money...

www.vox.com

He's still around. His media have given Zelensky a lot of support. ( Allegedly) Zelensky has close relationship with him. And the promise of de oligarchisation of Ukraine was selective and didn't really affect Kolomoisky.

Will Zelenskyy target all Ukrainian oligarchs equally?

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy recently unveiled plans to curb the political influence of the country's powerful oligarchs, but skeptics question whether he will target oligarch ally Ihor Kolomoisky.

www.atlanticcouncil.org

To be fair to Zelensky the Oligarchs are so deeply embedded in Ukrainian "democracy" that to de oligarchise Ukrainian society would be Herculean effort.

Not all are pro Putin. One of problems of Ukraine as a post Communist state is that the new ruling class the Oligarchs have been divided on this.

 

[Gramsci]

i think you misunderstood Gramsci's post - the Aidar Volunteer Battalion that the Amnesty war crimes report is about are also Ukrainian, not Russian. I think Gramsci is saying "Why go on about Azov, they're barely as bad as the other Ukrainian battalions." Thats my understanding of his post.

Yes it was. With all due respect to Southlondon I think he got the wrong end of the stick.

Also my point was that these militias were encouraged by the State but little oversight or control of how they behaved happened. Hence human rights abuses.

IC3D link detailed the Ukrainian state army was so weak that independently funded militias bolstered the fight against Russian backed separatists.

How much has changed since then I'm not clear on. Some have been incorporated into regular army.

 

[Wilf]

SO, WHO WENT! CAN WE GET A REPORTBACK!

I didn't, but could have probably given you a fairly accurate account even before the meeting.

 

[Nigel]

NEXT STOP THE WAR COALITION MEETING: BRISTOL, 27th APRIL 2022!

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Ex-RT broadcaster. Amazing.

 

[Sue]

Ex-RT broadcaster. Amazing.

Yes, seems a bit of a weird selling point but what do I know...

 

[cupid_stunt]

TBF, she resigned because of the war.

Shadia Edwards-Dashti, a TV correspondent, has also left the company after joining in 2015 as a broadcast journalist.

A source told i Ms Edwards-Dashti, a former Stop the War employee, was contacted to go live at 6am GMT on Thursday to cover news of the Russian invasion, but refused and quit with “immediate effect”, with several others following by midday.

Tweeting just a few hours after the first Russian missiles struck Ukraine, Ms Edwards-Dashti said: “I want to thank everyone at the channel for giving me the opportunity to broadcast globally on issues that I am passionate about. Best of luck to all my former colleagues,” she said.

Russia Today hit by resignation of several UK-based journalists after Ukraine invasion

More people are reconsidering their positions at RT as even those closest to the Kremlin have been left 'in shock and disbelief' at Russian leader Vladimir Putin's decision to invade Ukraine

inews.co.uk

 

[two sheds]

I'm puzzled as to how you'd get "Russian troops out".

 

[Fozzie Bear]

cupid_stunt ah ok, ta.

 

[Sue]

TBF, she resigned because of the war.

Russia Today hit by resignation of several UK-based journalists after Ukraine invasion

More people are reconsidering their positions at RT as even those closest to the Kremlin have been left 'in shock and disbelief' at Russian leader Vladimir Putin's decision to invade Ukraine

inews.co.uk

That makes mentioning it even stranger, surely?

 

[andysays]

I'm puzzled as to how you'd get "Russian troops out".

I'm sure if you just ask nicely they'd pack up and leave, wouldn't they?

 

[chilango]

I'm sure if you just ask nicely they'd pack up and leave, wouldn't they?

The key is asking them with the right slogan.

 

[Nigel]

SO, WHO WENT! CAN WE GET A REPORTBACK!

33 people turned up excluding speakers & chair; about 5 not religious based or politicos, three people from anti homophobia & trans solidarity demo beforehand we leafleted!
Groups who tuned up; Greens, Labour Left, Lib Dems, Unite Community, Momentum, Socialist Party (CWI), Socialist Workers Party, Communist Party Britain, Communist Corresponce Society, Workers Fight & A Couple Of Their Fellow Comrades In France Lutte Ouvriere, Counterfire, Oxford CND, Quakers, Christians (St. Michaels Church); basically most of the left in Oxford was represented!

Conspicuous by their absence; Sparts, IBT
Someone (mmaybe not the group) from Oxford Extinction Rebellion gave their apologies!
ACR/ Socialist Resistance also chose not to attend even though I promised them they could put forward their pro NATO/EU position backing Ukrainian Nationalists!

 

[cupid_stunt]

33 people turned up... basically most of the left in Oxford was represented!

 

[Sue]

33 people turned up excluding speakers & chair; about 5 not religious based or politicos, three people from anti homophobia & trans solidarity demo beforehand we leafleted!
Groups who tuned up; Greens, Labour Left, Lib Dems, Unite Community, Momentum, Socialist Party (CWI), Socialist Workers Party, Communist Party Britain, Communist Corresponce Society, Workers Fight & A Couple Of Their Fellow Comrades In France Lutte Ouvriere, Counterfire, Oxford CND, Quakers, Christians (St. Michaels Church); basically most of the left in Oxford was represented!

Conspicuous by their absence; Sparts, IBT
Someone (mmaybe not the group) from Oxford Extinction Rebellion gave their apologies!
ACR/ Socialist Resistance also chose not to attend even though I promised them they could put forward their pro NATO/EU position backing Ukrainian Nationalists!

Sounds a laugh a minute.

 

[mojo pixy]

NEXT STOP THE WAR COALITION MEETING: BRISTOL, 27th APRIL 2022!
View attachment 319591

Any Ukrainians booked to speak? (pt.2)

 

[chilango]

Any Ukrainians booked to speak? (pt.2)

..or even some Russians?

 

[Wilf]

Any Ukrainians booked to speak? (pt.2)

FFS, haven't you been listening? It's 'Ukrainian territory(s)'.

 

[hitmouse]

..or even some Russians?

They've got an ex-RT journo, is that close enough?

 

[Nigel]

Any Ukrainians booked to speak? (pt.2)

You'll have to contct Bristol STWC to find that out!

 

[Wilf]

TBF, a bit of a coup getting that grumpy tennis player.

 

[Wilf]

Actually, probably not wise to mention 'coups'. RT journalists get a bit anxious.

 

[nogojones]

That makes mentioning it even stranger, surely?

This. There must be a better way of showing she has a moral backbone on a flyer.

Maybe StWC don't want to ostracise the potential pro Putin audience?

 

[nogojones]

33 people turned up excluding speakers & chair; about 5 not religious based or politicos, three people from anti homophobia & trans solidarity demo beforehand we leafleted!
Groups who tuned up; Greens, Labour Left, Lib Dems, Unite Community, Momentum, Socialist Party (CWI), Socialist Workers Party, Communist Party Britain, Communist Corresponce Society, Workers Fight & A Couple Of Their Fellow Comrades In France Lutte Ouvriere, Counterfire, Oxford CND, Quakers, Christians (St. Michaels Church); basically most of the left in Oxford was represented!

Conspicuous by their absence; Sparts, IBT
Someone (mmaybe not the group) from Oxford Extinction Rebellion gave their apologies!
ACR/ Socialist Resistance also chose not to attend even though I promised them they could put forward their pro NATO/EU position backing Ukrainian Nationalists!

I CBA to check myself. What's the CPB's take on things?

 

[Wilf]

This. There must be a better way of showing she has a moral backbone on a flyer.

Maybe StWC don't want to ostracise the potential pro Putin audience?

'... and we definitely won't put polonium in the tea'.