STOP THE WAR COALITION MEETING OXFORD. 19/04/2022
- Thread starter Nigel
- Start date
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Not convinced that me replying to two posts that make unhelpful analogies about armed and unarmed fascists is ‘such a big deal’ tbh .
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Too much imo.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Fair enough, but feels like I've seen you make more comments like that on other threads, but maybe been mistaken.
bimble
floofy
Nah. Pick on someone with access to a full keyboard (but seriously, nigel is obviously not fine).
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I think there’s a world of difference in accepting the fact that there are armed fascists in Ukraine and somehow suggesting that Ukraine deserve to be invaded because the presence of armed fascists .
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
That's a completely nonsensical question.
However if there was such as case (probably in an alternate universe) I'd be choose to support independent militias and play bourgeios nationalists and the rightist/nationalist proxy allies off and out-manipilate them; similar to tactics used by Tito with Mihailovic's Chetniks, Mao to Chang Kai-Schek's Kuomantang, Communist French Resistance, Sabate and other Spanish Anrchists Anti Fascists after Spanish Civil War, Dev Sol and other Communists/Anti Fascists in Turkey, KKE against Axis Powers, British Army & Dictatorship in Greece etc. etc.!
However this is a completely different sitiation and the people living in Ukraine Region are caught between the machanisations of EU, America & Backers and NATO and tha Machiavelian Sceming and games of Putin et al.
Anyone with a serious progressive interests in the devastating situation in Ukraine Region(s) should be calling for imediate cease fire, negotiations and peace!
Backing the west sending and training the $2 Billion expediture, much of which will fall into far right militias and army squads regiments involved in ethnic cleansing of 'Non Ukrainians' backing western neo imperialist proxy government and pushing the hand of reactionary Putin and allies to do the same is just going to cost the needless deaths of thousands of lives, destruction and terrible refugee crisis, scapegaoting on all sides, significantly against Roma, Ethnic Russians, Greek migrants etc. etc.
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Military intervention, AKA an armed invasion. Nato/ EU made him do it. Total bollocks.
It's possible you know to conceed Nato / EU / the west made mistakes in dealing with and understanding Russia post Soviet eera without excusing Putin. And certainly without denying Ukraine's right to self determination or legitimacy. A bit too hard for the SWTC lot though. Fucking clowns.
Storm Fox
Trying the find the next noun to verb
Peace can be achieved by Russia fucking off back over the border, and as for progressive, what is progressive about Russia?
Anti LGBTQ legislation http://www.globalequality.org/compo...e-news/186-the-facts-on-lgbt-rights-in-russia
Huge wage inequality: The Rise of Income Inequality in Russia - The Borgen Project
And general lack of freedom. Freedom Index by Country 2022
Anti LGBTQ legislation http://www.globalequality.org/compo...e-news/186-the-facts-on-lgbt-rights-in-russia
Huge wage inequality: The Rise of Income Inequality in Russia - The Borgen Project
And general lack of freedom. Freedom Index by Country 2022
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
It maybe semantics to you and others here, however neither as far as I am aware Stop The War Coalition and definitely not myself are 'excusing' Putin!
Pointing out the raison d'etre of real politik, compettitve strategic socio economic mechanisations and who is the main force behind the situation in Ukraine Region and similar horrific conflicts around the world Western Imperialism still holding on to the Geo Politics of 'New World Order' after travesties in Iraq, Syria, Yeman, Somalia, Libya, I$rael/Palestine etc etc. does not let V. Putin off the hook; he still chose to play this 'Great Game' along the lines of their rules!
Neither Western Imperialism, it's puppet and proxy governments, Putin or any other of the power blocs have any serious answers to these and other problems!
Building a peace movement, Labour/Trade Union movement and similar support is the only genuine way of sucessful resistance!
Genuinely understanding and following an anti imperialist programme to understanding and bringing about genuine change!
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Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
The Pale (joke)
Eastern Europe, Eurasia, with annexes such as Crimea & Donbass
Storm Fox
Trying the find the next noun to verb
I'm guessing the same greater area that also contains the Moldovan, Estonian, Latvian, Lithuanian regions, of the definitely not imperialistic Putin
ETA As just confirmed by Nigel.
I'm stepping away from this thread for tonight as I have had a few beers and I would rather not have a ban hammer and a hangover tomorrow.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Not a country then?
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
That surely is up the the people who live in these regions to decide; under genuinely open free and democratic rederendum or plebicite!
Isn't this something that Zelenky has agreed to ( under pretence of letting V. Putin off the hook) and the Russians have accepted!?
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
I watched a fair bit of the trot 'teach in' posted on the first page. Not surprisingly, each speaker managed brief formulations along the lines of 'of course our thoughts are with the Ukrainian people, but...' and 'we don't support Putin and do call for a Russian withdrawal, whilst...'. Those weasel words were predictably followed by a 20 minutes of de facto justification on the grounds of neoliberalism and Nato. If you frame thousands of people dying in a murderous one side conflict, there's not only something deeply wrong with your politics, there's something amiss with your fucking humanity. As you say, fucking poisonous.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
I hope the residents of Mariupol are on board with your lecture in democratic theory.
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
Yes, let's ask the people of Mariupol which country they want to belong to. Oh what? You mean there aren't any left alive?
Eta. Wilf beat me to it
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
I keep on thinking of the Israel comparison. Imagine if, the next time Israel starts one of their murderous special military operations in Gaza or the West Bank, you got up at a Stop the War meeting or similar and said "Of course my thoughts are with the Palestinian people, and I don't support Israel and call for an Israeli withdrawal, but..." and then spent 20 minutes banging on about every bad thing Hamas had ever done. Somehow, I don't think the very same people would give you a very warm reaction.
rubbershoes
not the only raver in the village
It's like a corrupted computer spewing out catchphrases
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
Are you fucking mad? Serious question.
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
So not only are you mad, you're a mad cunt,
eatmorecheese
He's fallen out of the car again
Fucking hell. I get you are a golf ball, but there are levels
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
likesfish
You can't park here sir
Fatah and Hamas and Hezbollah are terrible people that doesnt remotely condone Israeli recreational airstrikes.
The Only threat Russia was facing was militarily irrelevance which it has successfully achieved.
For all the Broken citys and corpses in Ukraine Russia is seen as a military Joke. Putin's idea was equal of the UK planning to militarily occupy Dublin and about as sane.
Then instead of achieving a bit of shock and awe getting completely bogged down losing Generals because nothing works as advertised the military has been gutted through corruption and it was a horrible idea anyway.
Russia's military was always seen as a threat now nobody is going to take a Russian threat seriously if you can't put proper tyres on a missile truck who is going to believe your nuclear arsenal is in tip-top condition?
The Only threat Russia was facing was militarily irrelevance which it has successfully achieved.
For all the Broken citys and corpses in Ukraine Russia is seen as a military Joke. Putin's idea was equal of the UK planning to militarily occupy Dublin and about as sane.
Then instead of achieving a bit of shock and awe getting completely bogged down losing Generals because nothing works as advertised the military has been gutted through corruption and it was a horrible idea anyway.
Russia's military was always seen as a threat now nobody is going to take a Russian threat seriously if you can't put proper tyres on a missile truck who is going to believe your nuclear arsenal is in tip-top condition?
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Fatah and Hamas and Hezbollah are terrible people that doesnt remotely condone Israeli recreational airstrikes.
The Only threat Russia was facing was militarily irrelevance which it has successfully achieved.
For all the Broken citys and corpses in Ukraine Russia is seen as a military Joke. Putin's idea was equal of the UK planning to militarily occupy Dublin and about as sane.
Then instead of achieving a bit of shock and awe getting completely bogged down losing Generals because nothing works as advertised the military has been gutted through corruption and it was a horrible idea anyway.
Russia's military was always seen as a threat now nobody is going to take a Russian threat seriously if you can't put proper tyres on a missile truck who is going to believe your nuclear arsenal is in tip-top condition?
Luckily for them it's still not a chance anyone will take. And they have shown they have at least a few hyper sonic missiles.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I think you'd hear some warm words and things would become rather heated
Southlondon
The river's there for a reason
How about the Russian speaking residents of donbass who’ve endured years of violence at the hands of the locally garrisoned Azov battalion and the Ukrainian government?
Ordinary people on both sides are suffering and will suffer further every day the war continues.
I would support Self determination for all regions if that’s what the local people want, be it Catalonia, Ireland, Scotland etc or regions within the vast geographical areas of Ukraine/Russia.
Ukraine is being destroyed and their people driven from their homes and all efforts should surely be to focussed on encouraging an immediate ceasefire and an end to the war, not supporting NATO (nor Russian government). It’s both the Ukrainians and Russians ( the ordinary people), who will be paying the price of this war for many years - both countries not one or the other. Any longterm solution the Ukrainians and Russians come to will surely involve agreements over borders and sovereignty so better those negotiations start sooner rather than later because every day this war continues more Ukrainians and Russians die.
And a fascist is a fascist. I hope every member of the AZOV battalion and every ideological fascist on the Russian side get killed. I reserve my compassion for the majority of Ukrainian and Russian people who who have nothing to gain by this war continuing and who are victims of power play by their respective rulers
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