petee
no gods, no malarkey
The sadness of MSM deepfakes…
exactly.
Joe Biden's time is up
- Thread starter petee
- Start date
exactly.
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
Far-right media just won’t leave him alone.
Joe Biden Does a Bad Imitation of an Indian Call Center Employee
The Weekly Standard drew attention Thursday to video of Vice President Biden discussing the outsourcing of call centers and briefly adopting an Indian accent.
petee
no gods, no malarkey
Far-right media just won’t leave him alone.
tells you something, doesn't it.
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
Its a sorry state of affairs we're in when attacking the working class is seen as 'based'.
jeff_leigh
What happened to Dubversion ?
Whose attacking the working class and calling it based ?
It really shouldn't be difficult to understand
Humberto
Well-Known Member
The problem seems to be one of a lack of fresh vision and boldness. Same as here in the UK. And also having to constantly patch up holes every time the reactionaries demand 'freedom' to make a mess under the steam of their bluster and misplaced certainty. The old axiom is that if the opposition veers right and you move half way to accommodate them, you lose ground.
There's a real difference. And the current superpower remaining Democrat and the USA remaining democratic matters. Otherwise you've got the prophets of pseudo-science and conspiracy theory commiting all injustice and shitting on the majority. Law and established precedent then becomes prey to hostile states and private power and shit-stirring as we have also seen in the UK, and I'm sure also in many other places. If you don't fight back what then? Better conditions for a revolution at some point? Moral high ground? No thanks.
There's a real difference. And the current superpower remaining Democrat and the USA remaining democratic matters. Otherwise you've got the prophets of pseudo-science and conspiracy theory commiting all injustice and shitting on the majority. Law and established precedent then becomes prey to hostile states and private power and shit-stirring as we have also seen in the UK, and I'm sure also in many other places. If you don't fight back what then? Better conditions for a revolution at some point? Moral high ground? No thanks.
I disagree. Its no good fighting capitalism with more capitalism, especially when the capitalism is making it harder and harder for us to live and is destroying the planet at the same time. The wrong approach and the wrong politics is being deployed,, too many diversions that worsen the problems. Its the way things are now, the status quo and the system we currently have to endure - that allows people like Trump and DeSantis to have power in the first place aswell. We need a real alternative. Anyway its late and I'm tired, so I'll leave it there for now.
Humberto
Well-Known Member
Once we've gone into totalitarianism and 'alternative-truth' there's no coming back for an age. We are as Biden says at an historical 'inflection point'.
Liberalism is just another 'alternative truth' that people get trapped in though (and historically has teamed up with the ultra-right). They are just two different ways of managing capitalism at our expense and they feed off of each other. The thing should be for people to fight both 'alternative truths' and to unify around that and gain something truly worthwhile.
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So did voting Democrat 'restore the soul of America' yet?
Are folks in the US enjoying the $15 minimum wage? the child tax credit? Tuition free college? Abortion rights codified into law? And climate action? Saudi Arabia made a 'pariah state' as promised?
Built back better yet?
Are folks in the US enjoying the $15 minimum wage? the child tax credit? Tuition free college? Abortion rights codified into law? And climate action? Saudi Arabia made a 'pariah state' as promised?
Built back better yet?
petee
no gods, no malarkey
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Re climate action, Biden goes nowhere near far enough but he has reversed a number of Trump's deregulations. Despite his inadequacies, Biden is still better for the world than trump.
It's not an all or nothing situation, is it? Recognising that the dems are a bit shit isn't the same as saying that it doesn't matter if it's them or the reps in charge.
The Democrats have not kept their promises and what matters is building autonomous alternatives from below against capitalism, rather than actively and intentionally supporting that very harmful, destructive and extinctiion inducing system of the bourgeosie.
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Really? Is this the best you can do petee?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
You keep giving these instructions to people. You did the same on the bolsonaro thread. But you haven't shown that it doesn't matter who's in charge. You just take it as a given. And then you extrapolate from there that anyone who thinks it does matter who's in charge is 'actively and intentionally supporting' the system.
It's a straw man argument. You're not the only poster here who can see the deeper issues. From the way you post you make it appear that you think you are.
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
When you consider that it is obviously not your account, the post becomes interesting on a couple more levels.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
Until that blessed day happens, the current socio-political system is still reigning supreme. Ignoring it doesn't negate its power.
I don't believe in ignoring it, just not actively propping up a very harmful system but doing meaningful stuff instead and aiming to build properly democratic structures. I suppose if you had your way you'd make it illegal for people like me not to vote or something. Reformism has been proven to be a failure though.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
Whether you like it or not, bourgeois electoral politics can indeed be meaningful and have a real impact on things. After all, it's the bourgeois state which collects the taxes and passes the laws, regardless of whether the laws/taxes are the ones you agree with or not. If the vote truly was meaningless, then the bourgeoisie would not have been so reticent to extend the franchise and grant more universal suffrage rights.
I agree that the working class should be building democratic structures outside of the limitations and strictures of bourgeois politics. I just don't think that such a thing is necessarily incompatible with participating in elections. If people can help keep a particular bunch of fascists further away from the levers of state power by casting a ballot in a given election, then voting against them would seem to be a sensible idea, no?
Let's get this out of the way, I don't support the idea of compulsory voting, for anyone. It's an inherently absurd idea, you can't force people into freedom, it's the kind of thing that they have to reach out for themselves. If people want to abnegate any kind of electoral process, they should be free to do so without the threat of any civil or criminal penalty.
As for reformism being a failure, a failure at what, specifically? In abolishing capitalism? Sure, and I would tend to agree that reform is no route out. But revolution hasn't got a great track record either, can't help but notice that we live in a world where billionaires still exist, even in countries which have previously had anti-capitalist revolutions. Nevertheless, the working class have won concessions while stopping short of abolishing capitalism.
Blah blah blah. Yadda yadda yadda . . .
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
You know this kind of response only serves to make you look like an idiot or a troll, right?
Get fucked cockring
Reformism has achieved fuck all. It has failed. Joe Biden and the dems are anti-working class. And those are just facts. Not my fault if you are incapable of dealing with it. Go tell a rail worker how great Joe Biden and the dems are you muppet. They've done next to nothing for the American working class except screw them over.
So true. Undeniable facts. Never trust a politician.
Ax^
Silly Rabbit
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
So are you claiming that there have been absolutely no concessions granted or improvements made to the lot of the working class, for entirety of the history of capitalism up until right now? Because that's just flat-out wrong. So much for your "facts".
Yes, Joe Biden and the Democrats are a bourgeois party, and thus do not represent the interests of the working class. They're a bunch of neolibs. But that still makes them better than a bunch of anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists and Christian nationalists, AKA the modern Republican party. Do you think the Republicans would have acted better, the same or worse towards US rail workers? Maybe you might argue they would have acted no worse, and you might be right. But what about all the rest of the shit Republicans get up to in office? Is it all as equally bad as everything the Democrats get up to?
One doesn't have to personally like a leader or a party in order to vote for them, or even agree with their politics. One just has to ask the question, "could things be worse if the other guys get into power?" If the answer to that question is a definite yes, then voting accordingly would be a good idea.
Yes, it's a shit choice. Would be great if there were better working class counter-power structures in place to provide political pressure outside of electoral processes. But I'm not convinced that this antagonistic approach of yours is very useful towards that end. Are you going to personally insult every working class person who dares to argue with you using more than a couple of sentences?
Reformism has achieved little and the alternative would've achieved more. And with reformism we've just had the rightwards drift.
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