Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
I'm sure Primo would have gone with fascist rather than Nazi, you fucking clown.
Kamala Harris' time is up
- Thread starter krtek a houby
- Start date
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Are you? I've read every word he ever wrote that's been translated into English. He didn't think the Nazis were some unique phenomenon that could never be repeated. He was ever-conscious and perplexed by the fact that they arose among the so-called 'civilised' Germans. I don't doubt that he would have been making the comparison right now.
krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
As suggested on the main Hamas/Israel thread, this type of trope and other anti semitism deserves a thread where some kind of consensus and self criticism can be reached. If Labour and other institutions can be taken to task for their lack of action/overreaction etc, surely we can look into our own shortcomings?
Getting tired of the canards.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
OMG you can't call the Israelis Nazis. They are committing genocide. Right now. Yesterday, today and tomorrow.
krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
It is a genocide, yes. Nobody here would deny it.
Just being aware that "Nazi" is very specific and is used particularly in an anti-semitic fashion, as others have pointed out.
I mean, if you really need to, you can use the term. It just looks bad.
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
The Israeli government is not National Socialist, which is what you seem to be saying. The Israeli goverment is not anti semitic either (and essential part of what the actual Nazis were about). The details matter here, as does the historical context.
Yes, the Israeli government is an appalling, genocidal, ethno nationalist regime with some fascist characteristics that is doing terrible terrible things against the Palestinian population. Doesn't make it Nazi or Neo Nazi though. However, it is situated somewhere in the wider fascist orbit.
But of course, you may think it sounds clever calling them Nazis. In reality, it makes you sound a bit of a dick (and open to suspicion of being an anti semite by implication).
So, best avoided then, eh.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Would Levi have compared this current regime to the Nazis who put him in Auschwitz? Yes. He really would.
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
Just listen to yourself. Have you got nowt better to do than come out with such nonsense.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It's not nonsense. The current Israeli regime really is that bad, intent upon extermination. And you clearly know little about what Primo Levi thought, as laid out in his writings.
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
Well done. You're an expert on Primo Levy. You're right that the Israeli regime is intent on extermination. While they are undoubtedly far right nasty pieces of work, you're still wrong to describe them as National Socialists (which they are clearly not) for multiple reasons, even though some of the barbaric IDF actions may have similarities to attrocities done by nazis. It doesn't make it anymore right to label them nazis. The only reason I can imagine anyone would do this is because it pleases them to call Jews nazis. Again, please don't do this. It is very damaging to building unity in support of Palestinians.
ruffneck23
front left
mojo pixy
○-<{[°_°]}>-○
This is what Primo Levy actually said about Israel...
...on 31 May 1967 Levi gave a speech in the main shul of Turin, his native city. The following words set the tone of the speech and expressed what mattered most to Levi: “Lately words have been [expressed] that we thought were extinct: ‘With the help of God, we will win and we will exterminate our enemy.’ I can’t imagine a worse blasphemy. This is worse than taking [God’s] name in vain – it is calling for his help in a massacre. Are there still people in this world who believe in holy war and equate it with total war?”
Levi reminded everyone Israel, “originating in persecution and massacre” is meant to be a guarantee that “there will be no more persecutions, no more massacres”. No other country is asked “to cease to exist”. Arab armies were preparing for the country’s liquidation.
Levi’s response was Israel “must survive”. Why? Because, like every other country, “it has the right to live”, but, beyond this, “Everyone should remember the generation that created Israel consists almost entirely of people who escaped the massacre of Judaism in Europe… The pioneers of Zionism are the survivors of the tsarist pogroms, of the ghettos, of the mass graves, of Hitler’s lagers. Israel is not like other countries; it is a country to which the whole world is indebted, it is a country of witnesses and martyrs, of the insurgents of Warsaw, of Sobibór, and of Treblinka. The goal of inflicting dispersion and massacre on the survivors of dispersion and massacre is doubly criminal.”
“Israel must live,” he twice reiterated. Policy differences could be discussed and disputed, but there could be no denying the Jewish state’s right to continued existence.
(During the Lebanon war in 1982 he also said, “I retain a close sentimental tie with Israel,” he said, “but not with this Israel”. That's still a long way from calling it nazi).
Article
So he might now call them evil, misguided, traitors to the Jewish experience, murderers, criminals or many other things. But not nazis. He knew quite well what nazis were, well enough I suspect to also know what they aren't.
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krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
Kamala Harris is a low IQ individual, according to a man who describes himself as a genius
Donald Trump escalated his personal insults against Kamala Harris at a Wednesday evening rally in Georgia as he faces growing scrutiny over reports of his praise of Hitler and alleged sexual misconduct.
“This woman is crazy,” the former president said at an event in the Atlanta suburb of Duluth, hosted by Turning Point USA, a far-right youth group. He said voters should stand up to the vice-president and tell her: “You’re the worst ever. There’s never been anybody like you. You can’t put two sentences together. The world is laughing at us because of you.” He also said that in her recent interview with CBS, she “gave an answer that was from a loony bin”, later adding: “She’s not a smart person. She’s a low IQ individual.”
www.theguardian.com
Donald Trump escalated his personal insults against Kamala Harris at a Wednesday evening rally in Georgia as he faces growing scrutiny over reports of his praise of Hitler and alleged sexual misconduct.
“This woman is crazy,” the former president said at an event in the Atlanta suburb of Duluth, hosted by Turning Point USA, a far-right youth group. He said voters should stand up to the vice-president and tell her: “You’re the worst ever. There’s never been anybody like you. You can’t put two sentences together. The world is laughing at us because of you.” He also said that in her recent interview with CBS, she “gave an answer that was from a loony bin”, later adding: “She’s not a smart person. She’s a low IQ individual.”
Trump escalates insults against Harris as he faces scrutiny over alleged praise of Hitler
Ex-president makes characteristically rambling speech after report comes out of his alleged sexual misconduct
krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
Thats sadly going to be the case, given we are two weeks away from a momentous election that involves the two of them... in fairness, was trying to move the conversation away from the Israel derail.
teqniq
DisMembered
Tbh imo, if Harris loses this election at least one of the key reasons as to why is her and the current administration's position regarding Israel.
ska invita
back on the other side
shes fucked it, whatever the final result
Elpenor
a clown’s heart and a mandolin
It’s the economy stupid etc
ska invita
back on the other side
it was clear from the start that that's what would be necessary to out Trump Trump, and when she won her nomination that seemed to be the path she was treading most but its gone out the window as the campaign had rolled on based on the headlines I've seen in my not really paying attention awareness from another country
If she loses, it will mainly be due to a burst of inflation in 2022 during the economic bounce back from Covid. Crazy way to get an authoritarian government.
ska invita
back on the other side
i don't believe that.... Like all Democratic presidential candidates she is too timid and un-reformist, too business as usual
krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
The Dems are finally playing nasty, too late in the day.
I think Rob Ray's point is that it's not 'too late in the day', rather that it's not an effective strategy.
Ax^
Silly Rabbit
hmm polls have show trump.expexted turn out has not changed much since rrh last election..
not sure why all undecided voters are suddenly going to vote for trump
guy a douch bag more than likely Harris or not vote at all
like Clinton if she lose it down to people not turning out and the both as bad as each other ahit that been doing the rounds since the last election
not sure why all undecided voters are suddenly going to vote for trump
guy a douch bag more than likely Harris or not vote at all
like Clinton if she lose it down to people not turning out and the both as bad as each other ahit that been doing the rounds since the last election
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Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
There was this summary by David Frum (yes, I know) on twatter:
Basically, there isn’t really any more dirt to throw at Trump that would have any effect whatsoever, given how he still has mass support despite what is already known.
They’re not voting for him because they think his character has value, they’re voting for him because he pisses off the right kind of people for them. I don’t know how you break that, but it certainly isn’t by screaming about what a threat he is. His people want him to be a threat to the establishment.
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
"guy a douch bag more than likely Harris or not vote at all"
That's a left/center view though, and there's quite a large part of the US non voting pool which isn't. Bear in mind that for most conscious non voters everyone involved is a douche bag. If they stir themselves it'll be to stop perceived bad policy much more than about personalities.
That's a left/center view though, and there's quite a large part of the US non voting pool which isn't. Bear in mind that for most conscious non voters everyone involved is a douche bag. If they stir themselves it'll be to stop perceived bad policy much more than about personalities.
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