Joe Biden's time is up
- Thread starter petee
- Start date
teqniq
DisMembered
Lol it's not class war, it's a video published by an organisation that has a track record of promoting Russian disinformation for transparently obvious reasons. Get a grip.
Wow. You're a class war denier. Things are worse than I thought. But then if you're on the side of the bourgeoisie it would follow that you might deny that the class war is a thing.
teqniq
DisMembered
You absolute clown. I am talking about the video and the motive behind the organisation that published it. I would not deny that huge inequalities exist everywhere. That capitalism sucks is a given to me. But if you think that Mint Press news is interested in promoting the idea of class war and inequalities that are self evident to anyone with half a brain cell for purely altruistic reasons then I have bridge over the Irish sea to sell you. I see you've edited you post to include a further wild assumption. I'd offer you a spade but you seem to be doing just fine on your own.
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Ax^
Silly Rabbit
SysOut
¯¯¯
All the media carry propaganda. We're all in a propaganda bubble.
Here in Belgium, access to the Russian Foreign ministry and Defence ministries are blocked. Not a good sign for the state we're in.
Regarding "untrustworthy" sites. Let's amuse ourselves by naming "trustworthy" sites
One shouldn't be trusting - that is thinking like 14 year olds¹. One can remain objective, neutral and simply note what's being reported.
A bit like when two people are arguing and they each tell you their point of view.
This is, after all, what justice is about - not the lynch mentaility of Daily Mail readers.
Because in the court room, the jury must listen to both prosecution and defence without prejudice.
A bit like scientific thinking, i.e. rational, enlightened...
Finally, we don't have to judge - no is asking or wants our point of view. That's why there's so much censorship of opinions here and elsewhere. We've all been well groomed over the last decades. It's called drip-drip propaganda.
In 1914, the socialist parties were supposed to take a neutral point of view, pointing out that the war was a war between the ruling classes of the imperial states and had nothing to do with the interests of working people.
Had they stuck to that, they might have save millions of lives and - a plus for conservatives - avoided the socialist revolution in Russia.
But they were overwhelmed by the media. People like Herman Hesse who were just one of many pacifists, now found themselves in the minority and denounced as traitors.
All because of the media, which was really just taking off.
We are now in a similar state. I am shocked and disgusted by the partisan attitudes - as if one side were good and the other were bad - they're all gangsters, each has their good side to get votes and keep people on side - which are the freebies which are being mentioned here - domestic rights are more important than a world war? Well, not the sort of rights which enables one to stop a war.... so basically bribes
Both Putin and Biden are liars.
Biden stands around while the religious right get their way as does Putin - except that Putin expressedly said that the law to protect children had nothing to do with gays - and now he's changing laws, pushing Gays back into the closet, eventually making what happens between consenting adults a matter of state (church), analogue to the USA.
He is not, btw, not a "strong man" but a spineless opportunist - he had years to make the NATO encroachment a big issue, instead he let it fester apart from some speeches.
Biden, like his predecessors is a corrupt and murdering slimeball.
The use of drones to murder people is now accepted by the media - at least the CIA claimed deniablity - until the Senate Church hearings.
And now both Trump and Biden openly bully Europe. Just as in Bush's obnoxious "You're either for us or against us" and the toadies abroad cried out "we're all Americans now!" (what? Argentinians?)
Oh and we conveniently forget his and Trumps family business intersts abroad.
A curse on both their houses.
Let's just watch the match without taking sides.
¹ Games People Play by Eric Berne [BOOK] [WIKI]
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Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
I don't see a lot of people who think Joe Biden is the second coming. I do see people who literally worship Trump as a Jesus-like figure. That's a major reason to vote. The last thing we need is Trump in for another four years. If he gets in it will make "the revolution" so much more difficult to achieve. And, I won't be bending the knee to Trump or to the god of Christian Nationalism.
In my neighborhood you could see the immediate effects of the expiration of the child tax credit. The Little Free Pantries suddenly didn't have any food in them, no matter how much they were stocked. The lines for food bank boxes got longer and the boxes themselves emptier or the food was closer to being expired. You see more kids unattended because working parents had to work longer hours to pay the bills and more people so high on the street they don't know where they are. Even the people who are "Ok" right now are scared of the future. I don't ever recall seeing this much fear for the future in my life.
I recently checked to see if the longevity tables for the US have changed. They were already dropping pre-pandemic, but since then they've absolutely bottomed out. Many states have seen a drop of 2-3 years of life expectancy. Not all of that is covid. If you look closely at the numbers, you see that a lot is "diseases of despair".
Quite frankly, I've never seen anyone who wants to see the revolution to take everything down, actually have a plan for how that's going to happen, and how you're going to make sure that millions of people are going to be fed after the revolution.
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Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
So tell me, oh true believer, your plan for achieving the revolution, and how life going to be arranged once you achieve it? I don't want a vague answer to this, I would like a step-by-step, "here's how it's going to go down" plan that even an idiot like me can follow.
SysOut
¯¯¯
Anarchists don't have revolutions. They protest, applauded by the people they are protesting against.
Only the powerful have successful revolutions, towit, the rich bourgeoisie (middle class) - Robespierre etc.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
a withering critique that belies your years
Theres no blueprint (obviously) and I don't claim to have all the answers, but I think its still clear that revolutionary autonomous alternatives from below waging class war against the ruling class and utilising direct action and class solidarity are the way to go rather than electoralism, its clear to me anyway. And unfortunately with the Corbyn project in the UK, that actually took away interest and participation from meaningful grassroots stuff, another way that electoralism is very harmful.
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Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
No plan. Pretty much what I figured.
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I would just like to say that I understand the electoralist perspective, though I don't agree with it. And if you completely abstract the electoralist perspective from history then it does makes sense. And I guess electoralists and liberals are not gonna understand where I'm coming from coz they're nowhere near as libertarian as me. Philosophically I just totally abhore the idea of anyone being in charge of anyone else so I couldn't possibly participate in any system on that level and give such a thing legitimacy in that way. But I don't think you need to be that way to decide not to do it. Because the truth is that what electoralists won't do is accept that representative democracy has landed us where we are now. That whole process, that whole idea, is in a large part what has created the problems that we have. You can't cure the problems of representative democracy with representative democracy, just like ethical companies - you can't cure the problems of capitalism with more capitalism. This is very basic but electoralists refuse to look at it and try to understand it.
The overton window was mentioned previously. All this 'lesser of two evils' shit has done has shifted everything in the centre to a rightward direction, thats all its ever done. As Hunter S Thompson pointed out, this is a phenomena that goes back to the 1960's - whatever happens we've just gotta keep Nixon out. Its always been that sort of thing, its always been - this is our last chance, this is the most important election ever, its the most important thing that we keep a certain person out. Its never really that we get a certain person in, although Jeremy Corbyn in the UK was an anolmaly in that regard - the 'we must get Corbyn in' stance - normally its - we must keep someone out of power. Its such a negative game really. And if all this 'lesser of two evils' schtick is so successful, how did we end up with Donald Trump and Boris Johnson and all the other populist nationalist arseholes in power? And one of the arguments is that it makes it easier for governments to do more left wing policies in power - its never really been that way, its always been the opposite way. And its gone on and on until we end up with someone like Trump in power (whose not a fascist but certainly borderline), so where was the 'lesser of two evils' in all that and why is everything shifting evermore rightwards instead of leftwards?
The overton window was mentioned previously. All this 'lesser of two evils' shit has done has shifted everything in the centre to a rightward direction, thats all its ever done. As Hunter S Thompson pointed out, this is a phenomena that goes back to the 1960's - whatever happens we've just gotta keep Nixon out. Its always been that sort of thing, its always been - this is our last chance, this is the most important election ever, its the most important thing that we keep a certain person out. Its never really that we get a certain person in, although Jeremy Corbyn in the UK was an anolmaly in that regard - the 'we must get Corbyn in' stance - normally its - we must keep someone out of power. Its such a negative game really. And if all this 'lesser of two evils' schtick is so successful, how did we end up with Donald Trump and Boris Johnson and all the other populist nationalist arseholes in power? And one of the arguments is that it makes it easier for governments to do more left wing policies in power - its never really been that way, its always been the opposite way. And its gone on and on until we end up with someone like Trump in power (whose not a fascist but certainly borderline), so where was the 'lesser of two evils' in all that and why is everything shifting evermore rightwards instead of leftwards?
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Ax^
Silly Rabbit
also quote from Hunter
"Politics is the art of controlling your environment. That is one of the key things I learned in these years, and I learned it the hard way. Anybody who thinks that ‘it doesn’t matter who’s President’ has never been Drafted and sent off to fight and die in a vicious, stupid War on the other side of the World — or been beaten and gassed by Police for trespassing on public property — or been hounded by the IRS for purely political reasons — or locked up in the Cook County Jail with a broken nose and no phone access and twelve perverts wanting to stomp your ass in the shower. That is when it matters who is President or Governor or Police Chief. That is when you will wish you had voted."
"Politics is the art of controlling your environment. That is one of the key things I learned in these years, and I learned it the hard way. Anybody who thinks that ‘it doesn’t matter who’s President’ has never been Drafted and sent off to fight and die in a vicious, stupid War on the other side of the World — or been beaten and gassed by Police for trespassing on public property — or been hounded by the IRS for purely political reasons — or locked up in the Cook County Jail with a broken nose and no phone access and twelve perverts wanting to stomp your ass in the shower. That is when it matters who is President or Governor or Police Chief. That is when you will wish you had voted."
I don’t say we shouldn’t pursue reform. I’m saying appeals to authority aren’t the way to do it. Direct action is. Not whimpering at their feet, but shouting in their faces. Loud demands with the threat of consequences. Look at history - the Labour movement in the US, the Suffrage movement in the UK… Big reforms through strong and persistent direct action. Compare that with electoralisms. And we shouldn't forget it’s capital that has most of the power. And go too far against the interests of capital with electoralism and it just doesn't work. But a united working class has the potential for massive power and thats what I think we should work towards.
Social Democrat parties or at least parties less to-the-right on the spectrum like the Democrats in the States have been used as a diversion to lead the working class away from any meaningful action for decades. These fuckers are absolutely essential for the continued domination of the working class by the forces of capital. They are our class enemies. Why would we side with our enemies?
The more progressive option has always been a diversionary tool for the ruling class and when they let us down (and they always let us down), the working class don’t rise up, they become even more demotivated and lethargic. Even worse than that though, is that sentiment is then more likely to move to the right.
'Progressive' or less right wing parties have moved us to exactly where we are now. They diverted and fire-blanketed working class potential to create movements, they’ve eroded our desire for self-determination. They’ve made us weak and submissive, reliant on our masters.
'Progressive' or less right wing parties have moved us to exactly where we are now. They diverted and fire-blanketed working class potential to create movements, they’ve eroded our desire for self-determination. They’ve made us weak and submissive, reliant on our masters.
How ironic that your supposed pragmatism has led us to this sorry state of affairs. How ironic that your lame-arse liberal narrative of practicality and gradualism has led us to the brink of fascism. You think voting will help us now? You think the poverty and bigotry will disappear if you get your way at elections? We’re in deep shit and your liberal tactics that helped us get here ain’t gonna save us now!
Imagine if we put the same amount of belief and effort into calling for a general strike as we do into calling for people to vote a certain way. Imagine the elevation and expansions of our goals. Imagine the reforms we might gain. Imagine the boost to working-class power and the damage to ruling-class power. Have a successful general strike and we really will move closer to revolution, closer to socialism. It would be infinitely more beneficial to our aims than the election of even the best of the progressive politicians you liberals love to wank off over!
Imagine if we put the same amount of belief and effort into calling for a general strike as we do into calling for people to vote a certain way. Imagine the elevation and expansions of our goals. Imagine the reforms we might gain. Imagine the boost to working-class power and the damage to ruling-class power. Have a successful general strike and we really will move closer to revolution, closer to socialism. It would be infinitely more beneficial to our aims than the election of even the best of the progressive politicians you liberals love to wank off over!
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