Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[ska invita]

Was it a provocation, or just stupidity?

Maybe he read the report and thought it was now allowed

. His inability to sat the right thing at the right time (and his ability to say the wrong thing at the wrong time - see the russian poisoning case) made him very easy to attack.

He wanted to see the evidence, which he wasn't privy to, so fair enough. Pretty minor slip up, consider what the Tories say and do and get away with day after day after day.
Impossible to be squeaky clean, more important is how you deal with it. No easy answer there, but turning the other cheek and crossing fingers has it's limits.


Anyway, not really worth rehashing this.

 

[JTG]

I think Corbyn still believes against all logic and evidence that if he just says things he believes are fair and accurate then somehow everything will work out fine. So file that under 'stupidity' I suppose.

I'm not saying it's what happened, but I know I definitely wouldn't put it past Starmer to agree to Corbyn's statement and then throw him under the bus for saying it anyway. That seems to be pretty much exactly what happened to Rebecca Long-Bailey, at least according to her version of events.

Absolutely this
Starmer took swift and decisive action but also had nothing to do with it because that would be improper.
Give me honest and stupid over slippery any day tbh

 

[killer b]

Maybe he read the report and thought it was now allowed

so, stupidity then.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Usually a coup is against the existing leadership

New times, new paradigms - welcome to Neoincompetentism

 

[brogdale]

I think Corbyn still believes against all logic and evidence that if he just says things he believes are fair and accurate then somehow everything will work out fine. So file that under 'stupidity' I suppose.

I'm not saying it's what happened, but I know I definitely wouldn't put it past Starmer to agree to Corbyn's statement and then throw him under the bus for saying it anyway. That seems to be pretty much exactly what happened to Rebecca Long-Bailey, at least according to her version of events.

Schooling the left on purging.

 

[belboid]

The fucking report says it okay to say that you think the claims were exaggerated so it’s hardly surprising Corbyn thought it would be okay.

 

[belboid]

David Renton on the report (from a legalistic perspective)

The EHRC report: a missed chance

By David Renton Many of us had hoped that with the publication of the Equality and Human Rights Commission’s report, Labour’s antisemitism crisis would reach a natural end. That has not happened, b…

labourhub.org.uk

 

[killer b]

Schooling the left on purging.

It is an object lesson in the type of action Corbyn should probably have taken against his internal enemies, yeah.

 

[Brainaddict]

I think Corbyn still believes against all logic and evidence that if he just says things he believes are fair and accurate then somehow everything will work out fine. So file that under 'stupidity' I suppose.

Yeah, this is a big problem for him. Or was. He's a busted flush now, even as a leader of the left wing resistance.

 

[SpookyFrank]

The fucking report says it okay to say that you think the claims were exaggerated so it’s hardly surprising Corbyn thought it would be okay.

Another strong possibility is that Corbyn knowingly pushed the self destruct button because he's sick of all this shit. I wouldn't begrudge him that tbh.

 

[LDC]

The fucking report says it okay to say that you think the claims were exaggerated so it’s hardly surprising Corbyn thought it would be okay.

He didn't need to engage more than 2 braincells to imagine what the response might be to him saying that on the day the report came out did he though?

And yes, that's terrible and nasty, but parliamentary politics and the media aren't fair, that shouldn't be news to him ffs.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Schooling the left on purging.

Starmer is up to his fucking elbows in sewage. He probably thinks he's played all this really well but he's already fucked his moral-compass, laura-norder credentials with anyone paying the slightest bit of attention.

 

[LDC]

Another strong possibility is that Corbyn knowlingly pushed the self destruct button because he's sick off all this shit. I wouldn't begrudge him that tbh.

Yeah, crossed my mind too. It's either that, incredible stupidity, or stunning naivety I think.

 

[JTG]

Another strong possibility is that Corbyn knowlingly pushed the self destruct button because he's sick off all this shit. I wouldn't begrudge him that tbh.

He's given strong "don't give a fuck any more" vibes the last six months tbh and good for him in all honesty

 

[killer b]

David Renton on the report (from a legalistic perspective)

The EHRC report: a missed chance

By David Renton Many of us had hoped that with the publication of the Equality and Human Rights Commission’s report, Labour’s antisemitism crisis would reach a natural end. That has not happened, b…

labourhub.org.uk

These paragraphs are very good, and are worth giving serious thought to outside the context of the report.

First, I wanted to see something which would explain to those people in and around the left who have kept silent in response to the increasing use of antisemitic language that such a response is destructive, and an explanation of why they need to speak out.

Second, I hoped that the document would explain to people on the Labour right that their behaviour during the crisis had also contributed to it. That the Labour Party had been overwhelmed with a huge number of complaints, with a purpose of producing press stories that Labour was tottering under such a weight of complaints that the party must be institutionally racist. And that this dynamic of factional complaint proved destructive when it came to challenging actual prejudice.

Third, I wanted it to explain to the Labour left that we too had factionalised our response to the complaints, holding our hands over our mouths and keeping silent even in response to behaviour which had clearly crossed the line.

 

[Plumdaff]

I cant see Corbyn getting kicked out tbh...and then what happens?
Though if they do kick him out anyway, then all hell breaks loose IMO

It's pretty unprecedented to suspend an ex Leader, no one's actually reading and soberly discussing the report, and you can say Corbyn is partly responsible (although Starmer is now in charge and gets to decide how he reacts, and could have said merely Jeremy is entitled to his view, I'm focusing on the report and how to move forward). They've decided to detonate the nuclear option, how do they back down? If we know anything about Corbyn it's that he's stubborn often to his detriment, so what are they going to do? They have to try to expel him. It's a cluster fuck and was entirely avoidable by those now in charge. So they want to do this.

 

[two sheds]

Not the time or the place, it looks like he is trying to minimise the report.

Yes possibly, although if he comes out with the statement next week or next month he'll be accused of dragging up the whole argument again and the whole twitterstorm will start up again and Smarmer will suspend him from the party because of that ...

 

[ska invita]

It's pretty unprecedented to suspend an ex Leader, no one's actually reading and soberly discussing the report

When people need to look at the report is when disciplinary actions come up.
On that front the report looks good to me (from what I've heard), fair even. Impartial body to make the rulings is open to abuse, depending who sits on it

 

[MickiQ]

Took me an hour to read and catch up with the many (often insightful) comments on this thread and done it in company time as well. This does hearken back to the 80's, the Labour Party showing again its ability to fight bitterly over things that the vast majority of the population don't care that much about. Neither the current leader or the previous one have impressed me much with this. Starmer is clearly too concerned with what the Westminster bubble and the chattering classes think of his leadership. He may think he is doing the principled thing but is showing a frankly disturbing lack of backbone in dealing with external influence
Corbs still doing his Don Quixote impression. No matter how unjustly he feels he has been treated, he really should have maintained a dignified silence for the good of the LP. The last thing it needs now is another civil war and I don't doubt it's going to get one. As for standing down, he would be foolish to do so, the resulting hoo-hah will be nasty and will not look good for either him, the Labour Party or the political left if he loses which he probably will.
The one thing the last election taught us is there really isn't such a thing as a personal vote even for a popular local MP.

 

[Pickman's model]

The one thing the last election taught us is there really isn't such a thing as a personal vote even for a popular local MP.

Yes there is

It may be defeated

But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist

 

[brogdale]

Starmer is up to his fucking elbows in sewage. He probably thinks he's played all this really well but he's already fucked his moral-compass, laura-norder credentials with anyone paying the slightest bit of attention.

Quite possibly, but with the Labour right's agenda of never again letting the socialists anywhere near power in the party, all this tramping down of the dirt is quite logical and obvious, no?

 

[Idris2002]

Starmer is up to his fucking elbows in sewage. He probably thinks he's played all this really well but he's already fucked his moral-compass, laura-norder credentials with anyone paying the slightest bit of attention.

Good. The sooner PASOKification comes the better.

 

[JTG]

Good. The sooner PASOKification comes the better.

This is the line now

 

[MickiQ]

Yes there is

It may be defeated

But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist

Fair point there is some, hell even Chris Leslie (the slimiest of slimy) got nearly 1500 votes, Corbs will undoubtly do a lot better but to take 15000-16000 (more than half) votes off an official Labour candidate, possible but most unlikely.
He isn't going to get any Tory/Libdem votes not that there a lot in Islington to begin with.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Took me an hour to read and catch up with the many (often insightful) comments on this thread and done it in company time as well. This does hearken back to the 80's, the Labour Party showing again its ability to fight bitterly over things that the vast majority of the population don't care that much about. Neither the current leader or the previous one have impressed me much with this. Starmer is clearly too concerned with what the Westminster bubble and the chattering classes think of his leadership. He may think he is doing the principled thing but is showing a frankly disturbing lack of backbone in dealing with external influence
Corbs still doing his Don Quixote impression. No matter how unjustly he feels he has been treated, he really should have maintained a dignified silence for the good of the LP. The last thing it needs now is another civil war and I don't doubt it's going to get one. As for standing down, he would be foolish to do so, the resulting hoo-hah will be nasty and will not look good for either him, the Labour Party or the political left if he loses which he probably will.
The one thing the last election taught us is there really isn't such a thing as a personal vote even for a popular local MP.

Your last point is not true. Said personal vote may not trump every issue, but it would very certainly trump the internal politics of the Labour party.

 

[Idris2002]

This is the line now

From hell's heart I stab at thee.

 

[Knotted]

That works in the other direction though - the left are letting themselves be walked backwards out of the party with unforced error after unforced error. They don't have to step into every pit full of spikes Starmer digs in front of them.

Corbyn knew - or should have knew - that they would come for him yesterday if they could, and he gave them the excuse. Was it a provocation, or just stupidity?

I don't see the problem here to be honest. Corbyn is and usually has been in the past a fairly harmless backbencher, he wouldn't have been a figure round which the Labour left can rally, he isn't going to pose another leadership threat. But now he's a rallying point. I'm more astonished by the stupidity of Starmer tbh.

 

[ska invita]

This is the line now

Whose?

 

[belboid]

Fair point there is some, hell even Chris Leslie (the slimiest of slimy) got nearly 1500 votes, Corbs will undoubtly do a lot better but to take 15000-16000 (more than half) votes off an official Labour candidate, possible but most unlikely.
He isn't going to get any Tory/Libdem votes not that there a lot in Islington to begin with.

Dave Nellist came within 1500 votes of winning when he stood as independent (after being kicked out of labour) in 1992 and Corbyn is more popular than him, I reckon.

 

[Pickman's model]

I don't see the problem here to be honest. Corbyn is and usually has been in the past a fairly harmless backbencher, he wouldn't have been a figure round which the Labour left can rally, he isn't going to pose another leadership threat. But now he's a rallying point. I'm more astonished by the stupidity of Starmer tbh.

The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits