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Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

It's not the majority of people that matter, it's Labour Party members. There will be swathe of members who supported Corbyn's leadership but backed Starmer in January, and if Corbyn is expelled it will be a very explicit stitch up. The left of the party will get a hearing and sympathy from the centre of the party's membership. I think this is terrible politicking from the current leadership.
You might be right with you're last sentence, but it doesn't look likely that Corbyn will be expelled. It's not even clear that they'll be able to come up with a valid complaint against him. He'll be allowed back as quietly as can be managed. It will harm Starmer's image in the eyes of a lot of Labour members, which may or may not cause him problems in the future.
 
This isn't happening this time IMO. This will impact on the activist base, but I reckon technocratic centrism is coming back in style with electorates.

I don't think so - I think among millenials and younger (under 40s) there is a very strong and persistent demand for real change.

At the very least, something has to be done about housing affordability, and Corbyn attracting overwhelming support from this age group in large part because he was the first candidate to actually address renters rather than homeowners.

Starmer's Labour is taking their votes for granted and seems to be focusing on the interests of elderly, possibly retired, Brexit voting home owners in the "red wall" areas. IMO this is a generational thing. I'm not convinced that younger voters from Blyth are any more likely to vote Tory - Blyth and parts of Durham swung Tory because the younger generation have moved out, they are renting somewhere in Newcastle or elsewhere in the country where there are actually jobs (and they have to move to urban areas because car ownership may be out of reach for many), and they overwhelmingly voted Labour. Retired homeowners just don't understand how hard it is to get by these days as they are not economically active, and so they didn't understand the draw of Corbynism.

Focusing your political platform on winning votes from the retired or soon to be retired (which means protecting rising house prices) at the expense of the working population isn't a great long term strategy.

In 2010 they were ignoring people in their 20s. Now they are ignoring people under the age of 40. While people do tend to drift towards Conservative as they get more established and onto the property market, it doesn't look like people of that age group are actually going to get established in sufficient numbers as previous generations did, and I think we are close to reaching a generational tipping point where the voting power of those who benefited from rising house prices (people born 1980 and earlier, generally speaking) starts to be outnumbered by those born after 1980 who've had a shittier hand.

In the last election, Corbyn's Labour won amongst the under 50s and by a landslide amongst the under 40s, and the generational divide has never been so stark. A return to the politics of Blair which focused on appealing to the "aspirational" home owning middle class is abandoning the interests of voters who will soon be the vast majority of the economically active population in favour of elderly homeowners who are one foot in the grave.

The right wing of the party is wrong to assume that they can take for granted the votes of the younger generation. The Labour right are afraid to take on the interests of landlords and afraid to have a negative impact on house prices, which means they are not capable of delivering the policies needed to address the housing crisis, and purging the left of Labour is a signal that the Labour Party will not take the necessary action.

For this reason, I predict the PASOKification of the Labour Party (or perhaps, the "Scottish Labourisation" of the Labour Party) by the end of the 2020s. I can't predict exactly what form it will take or how, but I'm quite sure that they are swimming against the tide here.

There's also a good chance that Plaid Cymru will absorb a lot of Corbyn's support in Wales and Welsh independence will be a big thing by 2030.
 
This paragraph in Stephen Bush's mailout is pretty on point - and highlights why Labour were always keen to avoid an independent overseer in the first place...

It highlights the political difficulty that the move towards an independent process will have: on the one hand, Keir Starmer needs to demonstrate that change has happened, that his actions match his words and that his promise of 'new leadership' is not just a slogan. On the other hand, the biggest single promise of 'new leadership' is in giving away power and handing the complaints process to an independent overseer. The Campaign Against Antisemitism has already announced that it is submitting complaints against 14 sitting Labour MPs and you would expect that when the new process is in place other organisations will do the same. What happens if an independent process concludes that on the balance of probabilities, some of the 14 MPs should be expelled and some should not? What if the ones to be expelled don't 'seem' to most observers to be the most egregious offenders?

This is what I am wondering. If Starmer genuinely implements the EHRC's recommendations then he won't have any control whatsoever over disciplinary matters (though he will still have the ability to withdraw the whip from MP's). I'm guessing the plan is to just oversea everything behind the scenes or just simply ignore the EHRC and his legal obligations.
 
You might be right with you're last sentence, but it doesn't look likely that Corbyn will be expelled. It's not even clear that they'll be able to come up with a valid complaint against him. He'll be allowed back as quietly as can be managed. It will harm Starmer's image in the eyes of a lot of Labour members, which may or may not cause him problems in the future.

And if that happens it will make him look ludicrous of course. In the eyes of everyone.
 
In the last election Corbyn's Labour won amongst the under 50s
they didn't - but this is already ancient history. the tectonic plates have moved significantly in the last 6 months.

edit: oh, you mean the 18-50 bracket - I guess they did. but they lost heavily in the 40-50 bracket.
 
You might be right with you're last sentence, but it doesn't look likely that Corbyn will be expelled. It's not even clear that they'll be able to come up with a valid complaint against him. He'll be allowed back as quietly as can be managed. It will harm Starmer's image in the eyes of a lot of Labour members, which may or may not cause him problems in the future.
So he's fucked if he expels and fucked if he doesn't. Shot by both sides. Well done
 
There's also a good chance that Plaid Cymru will absorb a lot of Corbyn's support in Wales and Welsh independence will be a big thing by 2030.
Welsh Indy support up around 35% lately. Welsh elections next May
 
they didn't - but this is already ancient history. the tectonic plates have moved significantly in the last 6 months.

edit: oh, you mean the 18-50 bracket - I guess they did. but they lost heavily in the 40-50 bracket.

My mistake - I was thinking about the 40-50 bracket not the 18-50, but I was thinking of the 2017 election, not the 2019 election.

I'm not sure about tectonic plates shifting. The underlying material interests remain the seem even if the right have won the propaganda war against Corbyn in particular. The pandemic so far seems to have made the disparity between those with property and those without even worse. I've had to move back in with my parents because I couldn't make ends meet with the additional costs of heating and electricity from remote working, and house shares where bedrooms all have desk space are hard to come up - and I'm in a much better position than others who have been made redundant and reduced to food banks.

And yet, house prices have continued to rise, fuelled by people who already have homes moving to larger homes - while incomes are falling. I missed the pay rise and bonus I was banking on this year while many more are out of work completely.

The contradictions that gave rise to Corbynism still exist and are intensifying, and if the Labour Party under Starmer refuses to give expression to them, then a split is inevitable. This isn't the 2000s or early 2010s when struggling millennial renters were electorally insignificant. We're a significant part of the work force now and will only become more so, and Labour can't win without the tenant vote which went overwhelmingly to Corbyn. If a new party emerged which gave tenants an alternative to Labour, then I feel quite sure that they would go PASOK within 2 electoral cycles.
 
My mistake - I was thinking about the 40-50 bracket not the 18-50, but I was thinking of the 2017 election, not the 2019 election.

I'm not sure about tectonic plates shifting. The underlying material interests remain the seem even if the right have won the propaganda war against Corbyn in particular. The pandemic so far seems to have made the disparity between those with property and those without even worse. I've had to move back in with my parents because I couldn't make ends meet with the additional costs of heating and electricity from remote working, and house shares where bedrooms all have desk space are hard to come up - and I'm in a much better position than others who have been made redundant and reduced to food banks.

And yet, house prices have continued to rise, fuelled by people who already have homes moving to larger homes - while incomes are falling. I missed the pay rise and bonus I was banking on this year while many more are out of work completely.

The contradictions that gave rise to Corbynism still exist and are intensifying, and if the Labour Party under Starmer refuses to give expression to them, then a split is inevitable. This isn't the 2000s or early 2010s when struggling millennial renters were electorally insignificant. We're a significant part of the work force now and will only become more so, and Labour can't win without the tenant vote which went overwhelmingly to Corbyn. If a new party emerged which gave tenants an alternative to Labour, then I feel quite sure that they would go PASOK within 2 electoral cycles.
tbh labour are simply taking the pro-corbyn vote for granted. and the sheer opportunism of the current leadership will, i suspect, not endear them to anyone.
 
They do have nowhere to go. Is anyone really imagining a viable party of the left emerging from this?

Greens, LD’s, Nationalists. The Corbyn coalition always contained promiscuous voter groups.

However in respect of the potential emergence of a credible left party you are spot on. It’s not and won’t be happening
 
You might be right with you're last sentence, but it doesn't look likely that Corbyn will be expelled. It's not even clear that they'll be able to come up with a valid complaint against him. He'll be allowed back as quietly as can be managed. It will harm Starmer's image in the eyes of a lot of Labour members, which may or may not cause him problems in the future.

I doubt it has escaped Starmer's notice that Johnson has done very well out of being in a party with hardly any members.
 
Greens, LD’s, Nationalists. The Corbyn coalition always contained promiscuous voter groups.
No-one's moving to the lib dems from Starmer's Labour - I know a few Lib Dems who've cancelled their membership and intend on getting involved in Labour now in fact. The LDs will be bouncing along at just above sweet fuckall now until the next time Labour get into government.

I think the push-factor of Johnson's tories will keep Labour support among the left leaning fairly solid. Some will go Green, some Plaid (Scotland seems pretty much maxed out), but it won't be significant come the polls because they aren't really competitive and the tories are horrific. Maybe if Sunak takes over that'll change things (have you seen his numbers?? fucking hell) - I'll need to review things if/when that happens...
 
yeh but they can stay at home and then let's see how the labour party get on
In which case the Tories will win even more decisively than I currently expect them to do. Our current electoral system only records who people voted for not why. No-one knows what proportion of people who voted for Labour did so because they were anti-Tory rather than pro-Labour (and vice versa) . Starmer is probably betting it's high. He is also trying I think to tap into the spirit of Tony Blair and is willing to sacrifice votes on the left of the party in the belief there are a greater number to be picked up on the right. I'm not so sure that will work, the centre has taken a pounding in recent years. Also love him or hate him, Blair had charisma, Starmer doesn't. I think the Blair Factor only works for Tony Blair himself.
 
In which case the Tories will win even more decisively than I currently expect them to do. Our current electoral system only records who people voted for not why. No-one knows what proportion of people who voted for Labour did so because they were anti-Tory rather than pro-Labour (and vice versa) . Starmer is probably betting it's high. He is also trying I think to tap into the spirit of Tony Blair and is willing to sacrifice votes on the left of the party in the belief there are a greater number to be picked up on the right. I'm not so sure that will work, the centre has taken a pounding in recent years. Also love him or hate him, Blair had charisma, Starmer doesn't. I think the Blair Factor only works for Tony Blair himself.
Think it's probably just an article of faith for Starmer that you win elections by pitching to the right. He was a Blairite sleeper agent all along.
 
Amid all the Covid and the government's willingness to let extra thousands die, this feels like another kick in the teeth. Not because I think there's a parliamentary road, but because the its even the final kick for those who thought there might be some kind of social democratic decency (I didn't fall for that either, but its still fucking depressing). But starmer is a fixed point in this, his actions were entirely predictable. This is about the failure of Corbyn and those around him:
1. Failure of the imagination, failure to think you might need community roots for what you are trying to achieve.
2. Ultimate grand old duke of York, had 600,000 following them up the hill. They haven't so much followed him down the hill as wandered off, got lost, thought oh, fuck it. What. A Fucking. Waste.
3. Spectacular failure on Brexit. Not so much a failure of position, more a failure to have a position. 'I can only repeat, till the next meeting of the NEC our position is....'. All that time that Theresa may was weak, lost opportunities to go for a loud version of the only possible line, 'RESPECT THE LEAVE VOTE, MAXIMISE WORKERS RIGHTS AND ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION'. Might never have won that in a vote, but it was something real, something to take to the voters. Instead... GET BREXIT DONE... and here we are.
4. Failure to get a grip of the party, as others have said.
Edit: and of course a failure to stomp on both direct AS and also the lazy or casual AS that infects aspects of the left.
 
I can't see a viable party of the left emerging but Labour are going to lose millions of younger voters to none of the above. Enough to cause them problems in making any electoral headway.
Not totally convinced; I know trans-Atlantic comparisons really cross-over very well...but...if the early US turnout figures are an accurate barometer, it looks as though the opposition might be able to front up any old shite next time and still garner support (from the young inc.) just on the basis of being 'not Johnson'.
 
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