Japanese attitudes towards immigration vs UK

[Fez909]

I just read a comment on immigration by some right-wing idiot, but they followed it up with an interesting question I don't know the answer to:

To a Japanese person who wants their centre-left party to win:

Do you want Japan without Japanese values? Do you want Japans national religion to be changed? Do you want your quality of life lowered by people who do not want to be your friend? You do not REALLY know what center-left means today

Well... Japan doesn't have an immigration issue as Europe...

I’m so jealous of Japans sensibility. If the UK needs forced immigration to survive, why does Japan not need that too? England, nothing like Japan, is a cruel joke on the English. Its power is nothing but a deception. It only is able to survive by absorbing foreign workers.

So, why does the UK 'need' immigration, whereas Japan doesn't? Or is it the case that Japan 'needs' immigration, too?

I know the Japanese economy has been flat for a long time, and they have a debt-to-GDP ratio higher than, I think, anywhere else(?) But they seem to be doing OK. The have a high standard of living, with low crime, universal healthcare, a public pension and a welfare system.

They seem superficially similar to the UK in many ways, although I admit I don't know too much about Japanese politics.

I know they have an ageing population, again maybe the highest in the world(?), but so do we, and this is why we are told we need more immigration.

So why doesn't Japan?

 

[newme]

I just read a comment on immigration by some right-wing idiot, but they followed it up with an interesting question I don't know the answer to:

To a Japanese person who wants their centre-left party to win:



So, why does the UK 'need' immigration, whereas Japan doesn't? Or is it the case that Japan 'needs' immigration, too?

I know the Japanese economy has been flat for a long time, and they have a debt-to-GDP ratio higher than, I think, anywhere else(?) But they seem to be doing OK. The have a high standard of living, with low crime, universal healthcare, a public pension and a welfare system.

They seem superficially similar to the UK in many ways, although I admit I don't know too much about Japanese politics.

I know they have an ageing population, again maybe the highest in the world(?), but so do we, and this is why we are told we need more immigration.

So why doesn't Japan?

It does need it and is suffering huge problems as a result of hardly having any.

 

[bcuster]

Japan's population is in decline and is below the sustainable level

Japan’s population crisis was years in the making – and relief may be decades away​

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/01/asia/japan-demographic-crisis-population-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

 

[ska invita]

Japan's population is in decline and is below the sustainable level

​

"sustainable level" means infinite capitalist growth matched with infinite population growth....the only thing being "sustained" is the system..... the whole thing is bullshit. The fact population figures are finally falling is wonderful news. Let them fall, and the economic system with it.

 

[bcuster]

"sustainable level" means infinite capitalist growth matched with infinite population growth....the only thing being "sustained" is the system..... the whole thing is bullshit. The fact population figures are finally falling is wonderful news. Let them fall, and the economic system with it.

Why not allow future populations to have a chance at life and make things better than they are?

 

[ska invita]

Why not allow future populations to have a chance at life and make things better than they are?

I Allow It

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

The aging population will certainly have quite the time of it.

Though they may get a preview by looking at south Korea.

 

[Fez909]

It does need it and is suffering huge problems as a result of hardly having any.

what problems is it experiencing?

 

[burtabraham]

It would be a shame if Japanese culture were to be absorbed into the homogeneous blob of global corporatism. It seems perfectly reasonable for them to limit immigration as they see fit.

 

[ska invita]

what problems is it experiencing?

i expect its that standard
ageing population - cost of care crisis - shortage of workers and associated tax revenue associated with the care bill

there are other ways to solve this that dont involve higher birth rates or importing labour, namely a radical redistribution of the wealth!

 

[ska invita]

It would be a shame if Japanese culture were to be absorbed into the homogeneous blob of global corporatism. It seems perfectly reasonable for them to limit immigration as they see fit.

yes thank god japan has nothing to do with global corporations

 

[krtek a houby]

Japan has serious falling birth rates, younger people aren't getting together, let alone having kids. In the meantime, the life expectancy is lengthy. One of the highest in the world. With an increasingly aged population, there's a demand for carers.

And all the while, the country takes in an insultingly tiny amount of refugees and isn't renowned for making it easy for foreigners to live here.

Add to that the stifling status quo of the LDP, who have been running the show (apart from one or two blips) for over 60 years. They rely on an older conservative demographic... which is ironic as many have had to leave their rural towns behind for the big cities. As a result, you have hundreds of thousands of empty homes all across Japan.

Anyway, some of the problems here could easily be alleviated with a more generous attitude towards migrants. But it will take time to persuade an electorate who are currently riled up over an increase in tourist numbers and the misbehaviour of some. See Kyoto, Mt. Fuji and Johnny Somali...

 

[burtabraham]

yes thank god japan has nothing to do with global corporations

There's a difference between the globalised version and their own though.

 

[NoXion]

i expect its that standard
ageing population - cost of care crisis - shortage of workers and associated tax revenue associated with the care bill

there are other ways to solve this that dont involve higher birth rates or importing labour, namely a radical redistribution of the wealth!

You know that wealth doesn't just fall out of the sky, right? It's generated by the workers. If an ever smaller portion of the population is working because it's getting older and retiring, that means the portion still working will need to do more work.

 

[ska invita]

There's a difference between the globalised version and their own though.

what have you got in mind? make a little list

 

[burtabraham]

what have you got in mind? make a little list

Is this going to turn into the whole 'What's even is Japanese culture anyway?' canard? I'll leave it up to them to make their own lists, but as an outsider I can clearly see that they have something unique going on.

And if they are all dying out through low birth rates, then they need to figure out what the root cause of that is, not just lie down and die, simply to be replaced by others with a different culture.

 

[ska invita]

Is this going to turn into the whole 'What's even is Japanese culture anyway?' canard?

no your job is to make a list of things the would disappear because FORINURZ would ruin it for everyone

 

[burtabraham]

no your job is to make a list of things the would disappear because FORINURZ would ruin it for everyone

So that's a yes then

 

[ska invita]

So that's a yes then

yes, piss off

 

[krtek a houby]

Is this going to turn into the whole 'What's even is Japanese culture anyway?' canard? I'll leave it up to them to make their own lists, but as an outsider I can clearly see that they have something unique going on.

And if they are all dying out through low birth rates, then they need to figure out what the root cause of that is, not just lie down and die, simply to be replaced by others with a different culture.

It would be a shame if Japanese culture were to be absorbed into the homogeneous blob of global corporatism. It seems perfectly reasonable for them to limit immigration as they see fit.

 

[burtabraham]

This is what they are facing, by the way. Simply allowing it to happen, and proposing as a solution the replacement of the Japanese by non-Japanese people, amounts to nothing less that a soft genocide.

 

[NoXion]

Is this going to turn into the whole 'What's even is Japanese culture anyway?' canard? I'll leave it up to them to make their own lists, but as an outsider I can clearly see that they have something unique going on.

And if they are all dying out through low birth rates, then they need to figure out what the root cause of that is, not just lie down and die, simply to be replaced by others with a different culture.

Culture is a social phenomenon. There's no biological necessity to have Japanese ancestry in order to conduct a tea ceremony or embrace Japanese business practices.

 

[burtabraham]

Culture is a social phenomenon. There's no biological necessity to have Japanese ancestry in order to conduct a tea ceremony or embrace Japanese business practices.

What you think people are going to adopt Japanese culture by merely setting foot on Japanese soil?

 

[NoXion]

What you think people are going to adopt Japanese culture by merely setting foot on Japanese soil?

No, they're going to adopt Japanese culture by living there over generations. Just like how people from Asian and Afro-Caribbean countries did with British culture in the UK.

 

[krtek a houby]

This is what they are facing, by the way. Simply allowing it to happen, and proposing as a solution the replacement of the Japanese by non-Japanese people, amounts to nothing less that a soft genocide.

View attachment 433007

There's no genocide going on, and nobody is being "replaced".

There are Japanese with mixed heritage, Blasian, Wasian... Japanese of Korean descent, Brazilian etc.

 

[burtabraham]

No, they're going to adopt Japanese culture by living there over generations. Just like how people and Asian and Afro-Caribbean countries did with British culture in the UK.

Did the European colonialists adopt Native American culture?

 

[burtabraham]

There's no genocide going on, and nobody is being "replaced".

There are Japanese with mixed heritage, Blasian, Wasian... Japanese of Korean descent, Brazilian etc.

Allowing a people to die out without intervention is as good as

 

[krtek a houby]

What you think people are going to adopt Japanese culture by merely setting foot on Japanese soil?

You can adopt a culture and have your own, too. That's what being an immigrant is all about.

Do you think people coming to your country don't?

Or are you against immigration in general?

 

[xenon]

does make me laugh, the same mindset and people behind a system that has led to increased housing costs, privatised services, no real wage growth for decades, a now bemoan people not having enough children.

 

[krtek a houby]

Allowing a people to die out without intervention is as good as

What the feck are you on about?