james purnell hate thread

[Paulie Tandoori]

That's difficult to do when they have made the telephone the primary, almost exclusive, form of communication and claiming (and until recently also charging £'s for the privilege by using 0845 numbers).

The use of Voice Recognition Analysis as an anti-fraud measure is a real civil liberty issue imo, its clearly got the potential to have a much greater detrimental impact upon people with mental health issues or learning difficulties or people with sensory loss or people who don't have english as a first language or people who get nervous dealing with the authorities or people with accents.

 

[SpookyFrank]

That's difficult to do when they have made the telephone the primary, almost exclusive, form of communication and claiming (and until recently also charging £'s for the privilege by using 0845 numbers).

The use of Voice Recognition Analysis as an anti-fraud measure is a real civil liberty issue imo, its clearly got the potential to have a much greater detrimental impact upon people with mental health issues or learning difficulties or people with sensory loss or people who don't have english as a first language or people who get nervous dealing with the authorities or people with accents.

Apparently they only use the lie detector to identify people who might be telling porkies and ought to be investigated, but anyone who has had dealings with the DWP knows only too well that they operate on the principle of 'guilty until proven innocent' (or, a lot of the time, 'guilty, end of discussion') when it comes to any skullduggery, real or suspected.

The day when the measures used to prevent benefit fraud cost more than benefit fraud itself must be drawing near, if we haven't passed that point already. If you take into account the ID cards/database stuff (which, although it isn't being done to prevent benefit fraud, is often justified by claims that it is) then it starts to look like calling in the entire metropolitan police force and half the army to catch a ten year old who nicked a mars bar from the corner shop.

 

[Julie]

He's the minister responsible for state welfare benefits. His latest wheeze is making the sick take up their beds and walk (to work).
Put it this way, if there were any cunt sick enough to put John Howard's cock in his mouth and give it a good suck, it'd be Purnell.

Thanks for the description

 

[Awesome Wells]

are they supposed to tell you you are being 'lie detected' first; in the way when radio shows contact people they must tell them they are 'live on air'. If so, are you then under any legal obligation to continue with the call?

 

[_angel_]

When will they make politicians use lie detectors??

 

[Zachor]

When will they make politicians use lie detectors??

If they did the fucking things would probably melt

Back to the topic. Although I have robust views about welfare rights and responsiblitiy I feel there is something very worrying and dangerous about Purnell. I think he is an utterly untrustworthy un empathetic career politico.

He does need to be kept on a very short leash. My preference would be if he wasn't there though. I dont' think G Brown has the strength of charachter to deal with politicos like Purnell.

 

[panpete]

Then, explode he will, in his own misdirected power,
either that,
or,
his head will dissappear up his own arse.
or, he may suddenly transmute(fat chance) but I would love to be proved wrong.

Karma is a very good accounts-keeper, every debt is paid.

 

[panpete]

This post is not meant to offend the mentally ill, and iswritten by someone who has MI experience.

For a section of those incapacitated with mental illness, paranoia is a symptom, so lie detectors will just be one other thing that goes in the psychotic soup. The paranoiacs have come to know how to handle thier illnesses, so it's no skin off thie noses.

 

[ViolentPanda]

are they supposed to tell you you are being 'lie detected' first; in the way when radio shows contact people they must tell them they are 'live on air'. If so, are you then under any legal obligation to continue with the call?

No, because they're not "Lie-detecting" you. As far as they're concerned they're just feeding the call through software that gives them (in my opinion spurious) information about vocal stress.

 

[_angel_]

No, because they're not "Lie-detecting" you. As far as they're concerned they're just feeding the call through software that gives them (in my opinion spurious) information about vocal stress.

Like you're not going to sound stressed if you're calling the DSS anyway!

The whole thing is a nonsense and they've been proven to be cheatable, that's why they're not used in courts.

 

[Awesome Wells]

No, because they're not "Lie-detecting" you. As far as they're concerned they're just feeding the call through software that gives them (in my opinion spurious) information about vocal stress.

but even so

 

[ViolentPanda]

Like you're not going to sound stressed if you're calling the DSS anyway!

Precisely.
I get stressed just going through options on the automated switchboard system thingummy!

The whole thing is a nonsense and they've been proven to be cheatable, that's why they're not used in courts.

Voice stress analysis isn't even a widely-accepted method of determination of lying, because there are so many possible sources of "false positives". Even polygraphs (which measure up to a dozen different stress indicators) aren't accepted as evidence in British courts, only as indicators of probability.

 

[ViolentPanda]

but even so

The problem is that all this software's function is, is an extension of "call-monitoring" anyway, under our current legislation. It has (IIRC) been used (along with word detection software) on prison telephones for years to supposedly help HM Prison Service security personnel detect likely "dodgy deeds" in the offing (although none of my old muckers at the Home Office could think of a case where it led to stopping an escape or a dope-smuggling op). Basically I suspect we're buggered because current legislation doesn't specifically bar the DWP from using it, and from the answers I've had from my MP on the issue, there's pretty much a stock response (like a load of fat sheep "baaing" ) of "if you've nothing to hide, you've nothing to fear. Problem is that they said that about the Benefits Integrity Project too, and look what a clusterfuck that was, and how many mistakes about claimants were made.

 

[_angel_]

The problem is that all this software's function is, is an extension of "call-monitoring" anyway, under our current legislation. It has (IIRC) been used (along with word detection software) on prison telephones for years to supposedly help HM Prison Service security personnel detect likely "dodgy deeds" in the offing (although none of my old muckers at the Home Office could think of a case where it led to stopping an escape or a dope-smuggling op). Basically I suspect we're buggered because current legislation doesn't specifically bar the DWP from using it, and from the answers I've had from my MP on the issue, there's pretty much a stock response (like a load of fat sheep "baaing" ) of "if you've nothing to hide, you've nothing to fear. Problem is that they said that about the Benefits Integrity Project too, and look what a clusterfuck that was, and how many mistakes about claimants were made.

What a load of old rubbish that one is. It's always been, stop payments first and ask questions later on. Literally, guilty till proved innocent.

 

[Dozy]

Purnell the parrot
James Purnell, the new Minister for Culture, Media and Sport, joined Matt Williams and yours truly on BBC Five Live' Sportsweek this weekend.

Here, I would like to report that his performance filled me with confidence that sport was in assured hands under this Government.

Sadly, he struggled when he wasn't parroting from some prepared script.

And he was as unconvincing as you might expect when he tried to wriggle out of his past pronouncement that the 2012 Olympics would be a monumental waste of money.

Can Purnell rescue sport from years of muddle? Even if I could find one of these supercasinos, I wouldn't bet on it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-468841/Shame-cynics-belittle-inspirational-man.html


I thought I was being a smidgen too harsh on the man. But it seems that the Daily Mail share my perception of Purnell being unable to speak convincingly outside of what he has been briefed upon.

The more I dig, the more Purnell appears to be a moron.

 

[Goatherd]

Quelle surprise!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7890968.stm

 

[trevhagl]

Caption for pic-

"Just pretend the ball's some poor person"

I see politics hasn't changed since the Tories, put some fucking freak in charge of nasty policies then move him on when the damage has been done

 

[ViolentPanda]

brainfart

 

[_angel_]

In related news, apparently the tories are hiring that cunt David Freud to do some "blue sky" thinking for them.

How long before James Purnell follows him?
How can anyone seriously think there's a real difference between the main parties now?

 

[treelover]

The use of Voice Recognition Analysis as an anti-fraud measure is a real civil liberty issue imo, its clearly got the potential to have a much greater detrimental impact upon people with mental health issues or learning difficulties or people with sensory loss or people who don't have english as a first language or people who get nervous dealing with the authorities or people with accents.

Liberty has deliberately excluded welfare, etc in its portfolio of issues it will take up, the forthcorming Convention on Modern Liberty has nothing on economic and social rights. This LD stuff and forcing clamants to undertake CBT etc is indeed a civil liberties issue


RE: David Freud and the Tories, i suspect we are going to a see a 'big bang' approach to welfare similar to the 80's one on privatisation, etc, sadly the media inc the BBC have prepared the way for this with its coverage of 'scroungers', fiddlers', etc.

 

[panpete]

brainfart

brainfart and bottom burp

 

[Awesome Wells]

I'm seriously considering voting for labour next year. The thought of Cameron getting in is just that bit worse.

 

[lenny101]

The fucker has been putting his groceries on expenses:

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1108146_mp_defends_expenses

 

[panpete]

Some months, he is said to have claimed the maximum amount of £400 for food - double the amount that unemployed youngsters receive from the benefits system that he presides (preys) over.

Woops!​

 

[treelover]

this can be added to the fact he was one of the M.P's who took the most expenses and used tax loopholes on second homes.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3342043.ece

 

[Goatherd]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7998334.stm

Mr Purnell has previously said that the plans to cut drug addicts' benefits would give them the chance to "turn their lives around".

Surely he can't believe that?

 

[ViolentPanda]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7998334.stm



Surely he can't believe that?

He doesn't actually have to believe it, he merely has to profess to believe it. It's not like he's capable of actually coming up with policy ideas himself. He gets fed them by the various neolib-friendly "new Labour" think-tanks.

 

[panpete]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7998334.stm



Surely he can't believe that?

Mr Purnell, should take the opportunity to turn his career round, and become a good comedy writer, he has some good material.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I just heard that on the fucking news. FUCK'S SAKE STOP IT YOU CUNTS.

 

[treelover]

No doubt he spent all that money in in Waitrose and the Organics Supermarket Wild and Fresh, etc,


only the best for the new Plutocrats, eh?.