james purnell hate thread

[Awesome Wells]

I didn't say 'workhouse' did I. I just think that those who CHOOSE not to take part in community rebuilding schemes even though they could be offered extra money and who are not 'mad' have therefore made their bed ans should lie in it. Community Housing facility isn't the same as workhouse.



Unconstructive idleness is just that. Whether you are dole bludging Trisha Trash or a recipient of inherited wealth such idleness can quite easily and quickly turn into anti social behaviour, abuse and crime.

unconstrcutive idleness is just what? You can't even define your own terms; how do you expect anyone else to understand them? Unconstructive isn't even a word ffs!

Where is your evidence to suggest that people out of work are necessarily idle?

A workhouse is exactly what you are suggesting. Not using the word doesn't change that.

 

[Zachor]

unconstrcutive idleness is just what? You can't even define your own terms; how do you expect anyone else to understand them? Unconstructive isn't even a word ffs!

How about NON constructive idleness is that better.

Where is your evidence to suggest that people out of work are necessarily idle?

Experience. Seen too many tragedies where people could have made something of themselves but didn't. Life is precious its a sin to waste it.

A workhouse is exactly what you are suggesting. Not using the word doesn't change that.

You want to call by the emotive word 'workhouse' then thats your perogative.

 

[Awesome Wells]

Looks like it is going to be much worse, s/parents back to work when the child is one, Brown is clearly determined, in his view, to 'grasp the nettle' of welfare reform, we are going to have US stle system before long, with all that entails, thousands more in prison, etc.


I also think it is basically because in other areas, NL have run out of steam, and want to look pro-active.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/dec/02/benefit-cuts-single-parents

IMO that is inhuman. I thought it was 11 years old? oR even 7?

 

[Awesome Wells]

How about NON constructive idleness is that better.



Experience. Seen too many tragedies where people could have made something of themselves but didn't. Life is precious its a sin to waste it.




You want to call by the emotive word 'workhouse' then thats your perogative.

It's not better because you can't explain what you mean, despite being asked about 4 times. This is going round in circles because you don't seem to know what you are saying, which means no one else does.

Of course it's my prerogative; it's also accurate. What else woudl you call a communal living facility designed to house people forced to work for the state for benefit by way of communal work. What work would this be and just how much of it do you imagine there is in a given community, relative to the unemployed population within, there to be done? What about health and insurance? How will you accommodate people without the requisite skills? What about the people already employed to do these jobs? Will you force these conscripts to wear hi--vis orange jackets like common criminals? What is the difference here?

 

[trevhagl]

'The Gregg review stemmed from concerns in the DWP that the current path to benefit entitlement was not clear. Ministers favoured the example of Scandinavia, especially Denmark, where almost everyone is expected to do something in return for receiving unemployment benefit.'


ER, no mention that in Sweden benefits are much more generous, childcare is basically superb, they really are the lowest of the low.

Only New Labour could use Scandanavia as an example and not America where they REALLY get their inspiration...

 

[ViolentPanda]

Get with the programme. I reckon you could look after a few dozen whining youngsters yourself.

For as long as it took me to stun, humanely kill and bleed them, anyway.

 

[Zachor]

It's not better because you can't explain what you mean, despite being asked about 4 times. This is going round in circles because you don't seem to know what you are saying, which means no one else does.

How about sitting on your arse all day doing fuck all for others and possibly causing trouble for others as well.

Of course it's my prerogative; it's also accurate. What else woudl you call a communal living facility designed to house people forced to work for the state for benefit by way of communal work.

How about a Community Employment Facility?

What work would this be and just how much of it do you imagine there is in a given community, relative to the unemployed population within, there to be done?

I would envisage that for many at least in the initial period and for many there will be a fair amount of 'digging and sweeping' type jobs. Eventually with training and utilisation of the hidden skills that many unemployed people have improvements could be made to local communities that everyone could be proud of.

What about health and insurance? How will you accommodate people without the requisite skills?

People would be covered by NHS health cover and their stamp would obviously be paid. Training should be an integral part of a National Employment Service.

What about the people already employed to do these jobs? Will you force these conscripts to wear hi--vis orange jackets like common criminals? What is the difference here?

The normal regular workers shouldn't be in anyway prejudiced and the additional workers should be just that an addition. Wouldn't make people wear hi viz jackets. I'd reserve that for the crims in the absence of a system of public stocks

Doing nothing although fun for a short while should not be an option.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Zachor, the Giddens of Urban

Shouldn't that be "Giddens, the Zachor of the LSE", given that Zachor is far more fundamentalist about this than Mr "Third Way"?

 

[Zachor]

Shouldn't that be "Giddens, the Zachor of the LSE", given that Zachor is far more fundamentalist about this than Mr "Third Way"?

I'm not into punishing people for being unemployed more like rescuing them and giving them back their self esteem.

Give a man a bag of grain and he'll eat for a day give him a plough and he'll eat for a year.

Anyway I've got to go and write out my application for a job I've just seen - Beadle in a workhouse

 

[ViolentPanda]

Not quite. I spent time as a bludger (not by any fault of my own) and found that being unemployed itself was damaging and nearly led me down paths that make me think looking back on it that I had a lucky escape.

For all your harping on about about "2 tiers", your own words give you away for the slimy globule of arse mucus that you are.
A claimant (even you) isn't a "bludger", they're a claimant. A "bludger" is a freeloader, a ponce who expects something for nothing. The vast majority of claimants don't fall into that category.

 

[Fedayn]

Give a man a bag of grain and he'll eat for a day give him a plough and he'll eat for a year.

Is that all he needs, just a plough? I take it he can eat the plough then?

Won't he need, a field, seeds, money to buy the seeds, money to tide him over until the grain grows and he can sell it, possibly money to employ someone to help, money to buy a tractor etc etc...

 

[Zachor]

For all your harping on about about "2 tiers", your own words give you away for the slimy globule of arse mucus that you are.
A claimant (even you) isn't a "bludger", they're a claimant. A "bludger" is a freeloader, a ponce who expects something for nothing. The vast majority of claimants don't fall into that category.

VP. Looking back on myself in that period I ws so depressed I DID believe the world owed me and that is something I look back on with considerable mortifying shame.

 

[Zachor]

Is that all he needs, just a plough? I take it he can eat the plough then?

Won't he need, a field, seeds, money to buy the seeds, money to tide him over until the grain grows and he can sell it, possibly money to employ someone to help, money to buy a tractor etc etc...

Of course. Anyway I couldn't eat a metal plough not with my teeth.

 

[nino_savatte]

Give a man a bag of grain and he'll eat for a day give him a plough and he'll eat for a year.

Where's my fucking plough, ya bastards!!!

 

[Zachor]

Where's my fucking plough, ya bastards!!!

Maybe the postman nicked it.

 

[Fedayn]

Of course. Anyway I couldn't eat a metal plough not with my teeth.

So it's bollocks then really.

And anyway what would I know about claimants.... Anyway, i'd best get back to all those 'bludgers' you talk about....

 

[trevhagl]

VP. Looking back on myself in that period I ws so depressed I DID believe the world owed me and that is something I look back on with considerable mortifying shame.

I bet you don't work at Macdonalds though. It's ok moralising but there are LOADS of people stuck in shit jobs who DON't share the "hand up not a hand out" view (apologies for repeating such a cringeworthy phrase)

 

[Zachor]

I bet you don't work at Macdonalds though. It's ok moralising but there are LOADS of people stuck in shit jobs who DON't share the "hand up not a hand out" view (apologies for repeating such a cringeworthy phrase)

No but I've done equally bad jobs in the past.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I'm not into punishing people for being unemployed more like rescuing them and giving them back their self esteem.

Give a man a bag of grain and he'll eat for a day give him a plough and he'll eat for a year.

You also have to give him land, and food to sustain him until he gathers in his harvest.

 

[trevhagl]

No but I've done equally bad jobs in the past.

I can't understand how you could be grateful for the opportunity then

 

[_angel_]

I didnt say that. I said those who chose to do fuck all or fuck around shouldn't gt the same money as others who don't make such negative choices.

I didn't say that those with big social social problems are undeserving. Those with such problems do need to be looked after.

This isn't going to happen though. 'Deserving' claimants (ie most of them) will get the shit... real scamsters will move onto something more lucrative to scam.

And not everyone on benefits is a 'bludger'..

 

[Zachor]

This isn't going to happen though. 'Deserving' claimants (ie most of them) will get the shit... real scamsters will move onto something more lucrative to scam.
.

That is the problem and the great missed opportunity of this reform.

And not everyone on benefits is a 'bludger'..

No I agree.

 

[Zachor]

You also have to give him land, and food to sustain him until he gathers in his harvest.

Agree there. Hand up rather than just giving people money and letting them get onto it.

 

[Cressi]

Why do think I keep saying posse...the Die or Work Posse...its North American theories and profiteers come to round all up.

Prisons profit...everyone locked in neat little precise boxes........with belongings in exact same size boxes for everyone. People are employed. It keeps the streets tidy. Easy. Yahoo.

 

[Cressi]

And Zachor are you related to Zak the multi millionaire politician who has been to all the best schools? Only rich bastards uses Z'ds

 

[treelover]

@PT

LP insiders think Purnell is just about ambition, if it looks like the reforms are backfiring, then we will reign them in

 

[Zachor]

And Zachor are you related to Zak the multi millionaire politician who has been to all the best schools? Only rich bastards uses Z'ds

No, my family climbed out of the slime of Creekmouth. Not a rich bastard sadly.

My major interest isn't punishing claimants but building up their self esteem and mental and physical health by constructive fullfilling activity if possible.

 

[trevhagl]

No, my family climbed out of the slime of Creekmouth. Not a rich bastard sadly.

My major interest isn't punishing claimants but building up their self esteem and mental and physical health by constructive fullfilling activity if possible.

Nothing constructive or forfilling about Asda or Macdonalds, the only jobs on offer

 

[Zachor]

Nothing constructive or forfilling about Asda or Macdonalds, the only jobs on offer

Then in that case society needs to build an alternative. A national labour scheme to make use of all our hidden talents.

 

[rollinder]

or just stick everybody into workcamps and be fucking done with it