Is there a reason for the riots?
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Yes he ıs, I'm honored to say. I recognıze a kındred spırıt when I meet one.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
There is no such thing as 'neutral' in political debate, or any debate really; nor should there be
That has got to be the most obvious, banal and pointless statement of the decade.
breaking news; wheels work best when they're round, and bears shit in the woods
That has got to be the most obvious, banal and pointless statement of the decade.
That's why I said 'almost' goes without saying.
Almost....because maybe people like you need reminding.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
don't you actually read your own posts, the ones you're so in love with? YOU are the one who said that meaningless guff anout 'being neutral makes you more believable - I merely pointed out no such thing is possible. Ergo, why waste time trying? not hard to grasp, I'd've thought
No, we don't, we need people like you to stop posting such empty, gnomic "look-at-me-aren't-i-the-intellectual" meaningless, pointless drivel
Treacle Toes
Time
It seems to me that a more pertinent question would be; What do you think of Gilroy/want me to think of Gilroy?
miktheword
Well-Known Member
Not sure if Gilroy mentions it elsewhere, but whilst agreeing with the privatization bit he writes about, 'that time 30 years ago' was not long after the defeat of the miners, and Militant in Lambeth and Liverpool...the defeat (temporariliy hopefully) of class politics, or at least its eminence on the mainstream political agenda.
That time of the early 80s then, saw (Old) Labour's few remaining power bases in the metropolitan areas, GLC uppermost. Thus began the increasingly racialisation of politics by 'The Left', 'minority concerns' to the fore; and there were careers to be had for those who sought such a path.
Move forward, Lawrence and then Macpherson, there were a host of institutions not just the Met, who wanted to look at their institutionalised racism, and buy in their services as advisors etc.
There was money to be had from even provoking events to highlight and exasperate racial tensions - definte suspicions over Jasper's motives to march through Bermondsey.
This racialisation is a problem that not only holds sway still over much of the Left, but also elements of the white working class ('if its all about identity /ethnicity...well, what about us then?')
heard a 70 year old bloke on Talk Sport last night, had such a hatred of Livingstone from time in Brent where he said he moved out many OAPs of long residency from a home, to house other nationalities - he even named the individuals!
So, agree with Gilroy, but think that the defeat of class politics a few years before, allowed those elements to be privatised.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I think that what he mentions wasn't a result of the prior defeat of class politics - rather it was a part of the ongoing series of losses - a sign of losing the battle, not having yet lost it - and one of the most dynamic ones with the farthest reaching consequences. And it often came from those who were at great pains to appear most formally concerned with class politics. Amazing thing at the time is that the right were totally opposed to this and large sections of the left supported it. Both were wrong but it rebounded to the benefit of those most bitterly opposed - the right. Don't ever let any politicians tell you they have any idea what's going on or what's coming round the corner.
It seems to me that a more pertinent question would be; What do you think of Gilroy/want me to think of Gilroy?
I'm not sure what to think. I think he's an inspirational speaker... but if you're looking for a potential figurehead to effect real change... is he the one? Is he trying to be, or jumping on a bandwagon?
I said "trying to be neutral". It seems you have a real problem with words like trying and almost. You pretend the don't exist. Weird.
And BTW, trying to be neutral to me means much the same thing as trying to be balanced or trying to be fair.
Glad to hear you see that as a waste of time. But I could have guessed.
If you had a little bit more intelligence it might occur to you that, after 20 years of failing to have an societal impact whatsoever, it's fair to say that it's your drivel that is meaningless and pointless.
Harsh. But fair to say.
Treacle Toes
Time
I think he is well informed and knows his stuff.
I first read him in 1992 I think:"There Ain't No Black In the Union Jack" The Cultural Politics of Race and Nation (Hutchinson/Unwin Hyman/Routledge).
....and remember this article well too:1993 'Black and White on the dance floor' in Studying Culture (ed.)Ann Gray & Jim McGuigan (Edward Arnold).
Have read loads since then. I'm not sure he is trying to be a figurehead, he is though well placed to influence and educate.
With a CV like this:
http://www.blackculturalstudies.org/gilroy/gilroy_biblio.html
I am more inclined to believe that the 'bandwagon' is trying to jump on the likes of him.
''Britain had become ‘two nations … who are as ignorant of each other’s habits, thoughts, and feelings as if they were dwellers in different zones, or inhabitants of different planets; who are formed by a different breeding, are fed by a different food, are ordered by different manners, and are not governed by the same laws: the rich and the poor’'.
The vitriol that has been displayed in the country not just about the rioters(which imo is completely understandable if not sustainable) but of the chavs, the under class, the council estate scum, brings to mind, Disraeli's two nations and as neo-liberalism seems to enter its most brutal stages, it will get wot worse.
The vitriol that has been displayed in the country not just about the rioters(which imo is completely understandable if not sustainable) but of the chavs, the under class, the council estate scum, brings to mind, Disraeli's two nations and as neo-liberalism seems to enter its most brutal stages, it will get wot worse.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
figureheads, especially potential figureheads, cannot by definition effect change of any sort.
I think he is well informed and knows his stuff.
I first read him in 1992 I think:"There Ain't No Black In the Union Jack" The Cultural Politics of Race and Nation (Hutchinson/Unwin Hyman/Routledge).
....and remember this article well too:1993 'Black and White on the dance floor' in Studying Culture (ed.)Ann Gray & Jim McGuigan (Edward Arnold).
Have read loads since then. I'm not sure he is trying to be a figurehead, he is though well placed to influence and educate.
With a CV like this:
http://www.blackculturalstudies.org/gilroy/gilroy_biblio.html
I am more inclined to believe that the 'bandwagon' is trying to jump on the likes of him.
I think that's really more what I meant, actually. That his is a bandwagon that has suddenly acquired an engine and electric windows.
And that means that right now he is very much in a position to/of influence. But educate?
That's more complicated. He does a great job of representing black minority perspectives and explaining the political impact of black people on society and vice versa.
But as an Asian man, does he represent me? More recently he has tried to bring in aspects of other minorities that share common ground.... and I can identify with that... and that's quite some power. All told maybe 10 million visible ethnic minorities in the country - predominantly in inner city power bases.
I think we do need figureheads to unite behind. To drive a sense of common purpose. Is he one? I dunno... I like him.
They are not the button pushers, if that's what you mean.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
fig·ure·head (fg
y
r-h
d
)
n.
1. A carved figure on the prow of a ship.
2. A person given a position of nominal leadership but having no actual authority.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/figurehead
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yes. we've established you didn't know what a figurehead is. now we can move on.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i only quoted from a dictionary because your understanding of a common word is woefully inadequate.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
the thing is that gilroy is not a figurehead, that as has been said on this thread he commands a following. figureheads themselves do not command a following, rather their position, their office, commands respect.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Good on him for speaking out.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
What I can't understand is why that lying little shite Kelvin Mackenzie is invited anywhere to offer opinions on anything, except maybe how to pretend unconvincingly to be a human being when you're actually some sort of loathesome poisonous reptile.
Treacle Toes
Time
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
An invite to address a packed crowd at Anfield Road would be a glorious sight to behold.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
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