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Is Elon Musk the greatest visionary or the greatest snake oil salesman of our age?

That’s not to say extremism might becoming less of a thing, more means to deradicalise, etc. But that doesn’t take away the relationship between media and some pysches. And musk is very interesting to view in this regard as he just cannot stop himself being all over the internet.
 
for any other baudrillard fans, this image is amazing isn't itt:

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you have the representation of a rugged cowboy, bravely doing something brave, flooding into the brains of millions, far away from texas, captioned and posted by a bloke who grew up so far away from the texas badlands with a silver spoon in his mouth, who is also one of the richest people in the world, posted by said chap onto a platform he owns that is also at the same time radicalising him to post the caption and the picture in the first place. it's a baudrillardian lesson par excellence in the structure and being of the The Matrix, which none of us are sadly outside of. but turning off the internet now and then can help musk, like your daughter suggests!
 
like most of us he is probably desperate for something real, connected, something authentic. when ever he gets this feeling it might get uncomfortable so checks his twitter
 
Good post, BigMoaner

The other way this indirectly bleeds into the real is the erosion of common ground and public space. When our representations of other people’s representations (so-called metarepresentations or alternative representations) are exaggerated, reductive or otherwise antagonistic, we lose the common ground that is vital for producing consensus and allowing us to build social enterprise. And being ever-online turns public space into private space, because we don’t have to engage with the real even when we’re surrounded by others. So that removes the need to engage in joint intention for a joint project.
 
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Good post, BigMoaner

The other way this indirectly bleeds into the real is the erosion of common ground and public space. When our representations of other people’s representations (so-called metarepresentations or alternative representations) are exaggerated, reductive or otherwise antagonistic, we lose the comimin ground that is vital for producing consensus and allowing us to build social enterprise. And being ever-online turns public space into private space, because we don’t have to engage with the real even when we’re surrounded by others. So that removes the need to engage in joint intention for a joint project.
yep, and in an even weird twist the private space becomes public. Baudrillard talks about this too (way before the internet was even created lol) - infact he talks about this in regards two lovers - the lovers go to work, earn their keep, and go home to their room and and close the door on teh world. he uses all kinds of metaphysics and complex shit to describe how that encounter, behind a closed door to the world, i.e. the intensely private and intimate, is, well, something sacred. a kind of profound human experience of The Real, full of risk and danger and reward. Now teh two lovers for half the evening are posting on insta, they have all their friends in their pocket, could get a text at any time, so tehir public and private space is truly blurred, that the destinction between the private space is now not private in an absoloute sense. (this is why i turn off my phoen when fishing, and keep it off. i want those few hours to be an experience "outside of media"). this is why people on the left talk often about fordsim - the factory worker goes to work, clocks off, and on his walk home away from teh factory he is confronted somewhat with the "real" - i.e. the private space opens up to him somewhat. it is is in some senses "his". but now we turn that private space into means of more capital exchange every time we pick up our phone, which we do over and over, in a compulsive, addiction way. Our freedom and spaces have never been so monitised and spied on. every time i go for a walk with my phone on, google makes money off the tracking - "freedom", walking itself, monitised. "everythign that once connected us is slowly disappearing" as my fav philosopher has written, and he truly, deeply means it. He too talks about the slow erosion of third spaces like pubs, social clubs, working mens clubs, nightclubs, busy hight streets, and how they are all disappearing and not really being replaced. he believes that dystopia is not far off, something to ward off, but it is now. which i don't subscribe to, philosophy like we've discussed is just one prism. we still have a (sense of) agency and choice and most people i speak to are aware that care should be taken on how to spend ones time and how one should engage with media. there's so many different ways to view this stuff that is not so bleak. for me a lot of it depends on who i am reading at the time, Baudrillard one, Byung Chul Han the other. its entertaining if nothing else to read differernt views of "how things are".
 
Bourdieu is another worth reading (as are other sociologists and social psychologists rather than philosophers). Because what Bourdieu so brilliantly recognised is that we are not just one society but made up of really quite distinct “fields” (eg academia versus business, or sole trader versus salaryman). Each field has its own norms, dispositions, reality-making assumptions and so on, that create very different ways of being. So you can’t just talk about what “society” does to a person, you have to look at the set of fields they interact with. Dan Evans uses these ideas in writing about the rise of the petty bourgeoisie in a book I’d recommend to anyone. The world we live in is made up of a lot more than online connectivity and it’s as much of a mistake to overemphasise it as it is to ignore it.
 
This looks really nasty - again I don't really understand all that's going on but ...



with first comment giving more information from Vivian (his trans daughter)
Vivian added:
Hello everyone, I’m going to forego my standard tone for this because this is important. As you may or may not know, Grimes is currently in a custody battle with Elon over their 3 children. What you probably don’t know, however, is that Elon has been illegally and continuously keeping their children, her children, away from their mother during the most important developmental period in a child’s life.

While Elon has been irresponsibly partying across the ocean in the very country he’s spitting contemptuous poison about, Grimes’ children are stuck in a house thousands of miles away without their mother. This is potentially irreversibily damaging to a child’s psyche and is, without question, a despicable form of abuse. This is not the first time this has happened and if nothing changes, likely not the last.

I’ve only been able to catch glimpses of this from behind the scenes and it has been both horrifying and enraging that no one has been able to do anything about it. I cannot stress this enough, this is ILLEGAL. He does not have the custody to be able to do this. Yet, since Elon has an infinite amount of funds to pool from, he has been able to successfully employ them to take their children away from the mother that they desperately require. This needs to end, now.

X has been paraded around social media solely for the purpose of boosting his own brand image of “responsible father” when that could not be further from the truth. Meanwhile, behind the scenes he is both uncaring and absent while robbing their children of a mother. Please, do not let this continue. Thank you❤️
 
He's just a narcissist trying to spawn as many mini me's as possible, those poor kids.

Who gives a fuck if he is a narcissist? Everyone's happy calling everyone 'narcissists' or if I'm really on form, 'possible sociopath'. Some even write long academic posts about it. Hasn't helped.
 
Not really but I don't think it makes much difference what people like us say about him.

You said it hasn't helped. So what do you think would help?
 
Who gives a fuck if he is a narcissist? Everyone's happy calling everyone 'narcissists' or if I'm really on form, 'possible sociopath'. Some even write long academic posts about it. Hasn't helped.
You had a go at a poster for a post that seemed reasonable enough to me, and said it hasn't helped, so what do you feel would help?
 
Well you said it, I'm presuming you knew what you meant at the time.

I don't think workers' conditions, and all the people in it for life will be helped by another daily psychoanalysis of Trump's personality.

What do I think would help? Widespread union organisation and participation.
 
Yes I'd agree with that, but I'm still not sure why you had a go at someone just for saying "He's just a narcissist trying to spawn as many mini me's as possible, those poor kids."

Perhaps they should have instead been going out union organizing but there again so should you and I, and for me it's time for bed.
 
Yes I'd agree with that, but I'm still not sure why you had a go at someone just for saying "He's just a narcissist trying to spawn as many mini me's as possible, those poor kids."

Perhaps they should have instead been going out union organizing but there again so should you and I, and for me it's time for bed.

Well I'm bored of it. After what two terms and more and more to come. Totally useless.
 
I know it’s a simplistic reductive explanation but I still think endless twitter usage is a factor in this kind of broken, childlike vision of the world. As I see with a lot of online extremists, their main enemies are not actually based in the real world in a tangible sense but in the hyper real world of the endless images that they consume. The enemy is not someone they encounter in the street but the representation of them online. Their enemies are somewhat then a construction (esp when their enemies are compelled to post through like/follower/money- validation). Someone posted evidence in this thread that he spends a great deal of his day on it. So the war the extremist fights is a hyper real war not one based in flesh and bone sand and tree reality. This is somewhat Jean Baudrillard’s ideas - the grand irony is that he was influential in the matrix film, the matrix being what smart logic bros like musk think they are living outside of. Musk is a wonderful example of what happens when you mistake the “nearly real” for the The Real. Twitter In a lot of cases in like Baudrillard’s simulation on steroids.

Folk used to often get angry at blaming social media for extremism as it was reductive and ignored root causes and got capitalism off the hook or something. But I think that should be reevaluated, I don’t think much extremism actually functions in the “real world” anymore except of course when some weirdo takes out a gun at a school, etc at the very end of the miserable process.

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I would put it like this: social media is (or at least, easily lends itself towards being used as) a Strawman Machine. It enables one to create the perfect enemy out of bespoke parts and then knock it down. That's why the enemies of terminally online political extremists are all made up of AI-generated images and various flavours of Wojak. Any time real pictures are used to depict the enemy, they've been stripped entirely of their context in order to be used as a symbol.

Baudrillard apparently disliked The Matrix. His loss in my opinion.

I think people may have been more reluctant to blame social media in the past, because back then we didn't understand the true depths of callous indifference exhibited by the corporate controllers of such platforms. But since then it's become increasingly obvious that the bosses at Facebook and TikTok are solely concerned with keeping people addicted "engaged". Musk's Xhitter doesn't even care about advertisers any more, it's become a free-flowing sewage pipe connected straight to the brains of the worst people in society.

I really hope that these disgusting internet weirdos are merely the loud mouths of a definite minority in real life, but given that police in the UK have recently declared violence against women to be a "national emergency", I fear that the problem may be more manifest in real life than decent people would like it to be.
 
I would put it like this: social media is (or at least, easily lends itself towards being used as) a Strawman Machine. It enables one to create the perfect enemy out of bespoke parts and then knock it down. That's why the enemies of terminally online political extremists are all made up of AI-generated images and various flavours of Wojak. Any time real pictures are used to depict the enemy, they've been stripped entirely of their context in order to be used as a symbol.

Baudrillard apparently disliked The Matrix. His loss in my opinion.

I think people may have been more reluctant to blame social media in the past, because back then we didn't understand the true depths of callous indifference exhibited by the corporate controllers of such platforms. But since then it's become increasingly obvious that the bosses at Facebook and TikTok are solely concerned with keeping people addicted "engaged". Musk's Xhitter doesn't even care about advertisers any more, it's become a free-flowing sewage pipe connected straight to the brains of the worst people in society.

I really hope that these disgusting internet weirdos are merely the loud mouths of a definite minority in real life, but given that police in the UK have recently declared violence against women to be a "national emergency", I fear that the problem may be more manifest in real life than decent people would like it to be.

Yep, esp the first sentence. I have no idea tbh whether social media is a net good or bad for humanity but the lenses in which it can be viewed critically are fascinating. One things for sure though is that right wing blowhards like musk boating about living outside the matrix are hillarious when they spend huge portions of their life literally living in a sort of unreal representation.
 
Nope, no idea sorry. Abortion rights that mean you can kill babies even when they've go to 70 years of age?
Yeah all I can think of is some reference to abortion but I don't think Musk really cares about that so no idea what he is jabbering about.

Seems more than slightly melodramatic to say electing Harris would lead to human extinction which seems to be what he is suggesting.
 
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