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Iranian President suggests 9/11 foul play and cover up

editor said:
Right, that's it.

I can see that you're only interested in knocking out the same loonspud stuff all over again for the millionth time.

In line with our oft-repeated policy about endlessly repeating 9/11 threads that just echo the same evidence-free 'speculation' again and again and again, either produce credible new evidence or this thread is bin bound.

Right, that's it, said the headmaster.

You have been letting the same stuff go on for pages now, and you will let it go on for about another page or so after your warning, then you will close/bin the thread.

It's the same every time.

This thread had an interesting angle, through the iranian connection, but it just became the same as all of them. Masses of conjecture.
 
Jazzz said:
As you wish.
So you don't think there's anything remotely sloppy and slapdash - or frankly embarrassing - about your 'research' which involves totally dismissing the massively qualified opinion of probably one of the biggest experts on the WTC on the planet in preference to some completely unknown and unremarkable scientist?

Your lamentable excuse that he simply hadn't realised that the building which he fucking built was in fact brought down by invisibly installed, invisibly wired, invisible explosives just shows how brainwashed you are by loonspudery.

If you were looking for answers, he'd be the first person you'd be listening to.
 
fela fan said:
Right, that's it, said the headmaster.
Oh fuck off with your stirring. There was actually a debate - of sorts - going on before you reared your whining head.

So, back on topic. Who would you believe? A God-bothering unknown scientist who struggled to get his paper accepted from his own college or a world-respected engineer who actually helped build the WTC?
 
editor said:
So, back on topic. Who would you believe? A God-bothering unknown scientist who struggled to get his paper accepted from his own college or a world-respected engineer who actually helped build the WTC?

Well the way you put it, it would have to be the latter.

But bush is god-bothering, so is blair.

And that scientist has been peer-reviewed.

And the man who built the wtc might not want to be blamed for his faulty workmanship...

Face it editor, most of these threads are simply conjecture. None of us knows anything, we only suspect what we suspect.

And i suspect too many coincidences and too much incompetence.

So does the iranian president in that excellent letter of his, that bush just rejected out of hand. Did the british press publish it? I know the french press did.
 
I am sorry that you are seeking to smear Steve Jones as 'unknown' or 'not fully qualified' or worse, 'God Bothering'. He's an acclaimed physicist whose qualifications are certainly not in doubt. Having a go at his religion is a cheap and ridiculous shot editor.

If you want to simply look for someone else's opinion to follow, by all means go on your few paragraphs of Leslie Robertson, in which controlled demolition is not even considered as a possibility. With my blessing.

But you shouldn't presume that others need do so, nor that such an appeal to authority constitutes in any way a logical argument nor a discussion of the issue.
 
Jazzz said:
Steve Jones... an acclaimed physicist whose qualifications are certainly not in doubt.

But your acclamation doesn't count. It's his peers' acclamation that would count. Except... let's see. What does he do?

Ah, yes. Metal-catalysed fusion.

Now I remember - that group at Brigham Young. The laughing stock of physics, worldwide. The department that decided to hold a press conference to announce "cold fusion" rather than taking the rather essential step of going through peer review of their work.

Even if his work were good physics it would be about as much use in backing up his opinions about large-scale civil engineering as would expertise in Early Baroque musical notation. That is, none.

But.

I confess that I haven't actually read his paper "Geo-fusion and Cold Nucleosynthesis" in Tenth International Conference on Cold Fusion. (2003. Cambridge, MA: LENR-CANR.org.). But the first sentence of the abstract is this:


"In our 1986 and 1989 papers, we discussed the hypothesis of cold nuclear fusion in condensed matter and particularly in the planets."

This is known in the trade as "armwaving bollocks" - but worse, because they haven't even shown that there are arms.
 
laptop you are confusing Steve Jones and Brigham Young University with Fleischmann/Pons and the University of Utah. Here's wikipedia

Cold Fusion

In the mid 1980s, Jones and other BYU scientists demonstrated an interesting new effect related to the potential for harnessing energy from cold fusion, now also referred to as muon-catalyzed fusion. The Jones process – not to be confused with the Cold fusion research of Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann – did not produce excess heat, and therefore did not provide a source of energy. The Jones process, through measurement of charged particles, demonstrated excellent validation that nuclear processes can occur in a relatively simple, room temperature experiment.

Jones did not claim that any useful energy was produced. Rather, he reported slightly more neutrons were detected from experiments than could be expected from normal sources. Jones said the result suggested at least the possibility of fusion, though unlikely to be useful as an energy source. A New York Times article entitled Physicists Debunk Claim Of a New Kind of Fusion notes that while peer-reviewers were quite critical of Pons and Fleishchmann's research, they did not apply such criticism to Jones' much more modest findings. [2] The reviewing physicists stated that "Dr. Jones is a careful scientist."

But it's true that Jones invented the term 'cold fusion', apparently. Strange that he's still unknown, editor?

As for 'armwaving bollocks' I think you can find plenty of it in official reports of the WTC collapses.
 
Jazzz said:
laptop you are confusing Steve Jones and Brigham Young University with Fleischmann/Pons and the University of Utah.

Right (alleged) subject of research, right state...

Do you have any idea what any of the words in the phrase "metal catalysed fusion" mean to a physicist?

Jazzz said:
But it's true that Jones invented the term 'cold fusion', apparently. Strange that he's still unknown, editor?

It. Must. Be. A. Conspiracy. To. Keep. Cold. Fusion. Unknown. :D

Jazzz said:
As for 'armwaving bollocks' I think you can find plenty of it in official reports of the WTC collapses.

Is the transparent feebleness of this excuse for a rhetorical move the nearest you're going to get to confessing that your "acclaimed" is bollocks and that your current pet "source" is working in a totally fringe, almost certainly discredited and utterly irrelevant field?
 
What a load of crap laptop. He's a respected scientist whose research has been in no way discredited. There is no comment in his paper on the WTC he is not qualified to make, and, unlike just about everything else put up here in favour of the official theory, it's passed a second set of peer-reviews.

Go and smear someone else.
 
BUT whatever the merits of his research - what is its relevance to large-scale civil engineering?

Do you have any idea what any of the words in the phrase "metal catalysed fusion" mean to a physicist?
 
Why don't, instead of making further silly attempts to smear his cold fusion research by association with Fleischmann & Pons' free energy machine which didn't materialise a while back, you point out where in his paper he is going wrong? Or if you don't know much about the (quite accessible) physics involved, find someone else who can point out the flaws? It's a big internet, and seeing as there must be obvious errors of reasoning going on, and loads of scientists queuing up to do so, where are they?
 
The thread to discuss Cold Fusion is here.

The topic of this thread is per the OP. And, specifically
September eleven was not a simple operation. Could it be planned and executed without coordination with intelligence and security services – or their extensive infiltration? Of course this is just an educated guess. Why have the various aspects of the attacks been kept secret? Why are we not told who botched their responsibilities? And, why aren't those responsible and the guilty parties identified and put on trial?

This has been a public service announcement
 
Jazzz said:
Why don't, instead of making further silly attempts to smear his cold fusion research by association with Fleischmann & Pons' free energy machine which didn't materialise a while back, you point out where in his paper he is going wrong?
How about you stop trying to smear one of the world's leading structural engineers who actually worked on the WTC by suggesting he's too stupid to spot massive invisible explosives going off in his own building?

Why not go through his analysis - based on his immense experience with the building - and point out where he's gone wrong?

Does Jones explain how they managed to invisibly install tons and tons of these invisible explosives, btw?
 
Jazzz said:
But it's true that Jones invented the term 'cold fusion', apparently. Strange that he's still unknown, editor?.
Cold fusion, eh? Let's see how that one went down when Jones was involved.
In July and November 1989, Nature published papers critical of cold fusion which cast the idea of cold fusion out of mainstream science.[8][9]

In November, a special panel formed by the Energy Research Advisory Board (under a charge of the US Department of Energy) reported the result of their investigation into cold fusion. The scientists in the panel found the evidence for cold fusion to be unconvincing.

As 1989 wore on, cold fusion was considered by mainstream scientists to be self-deception, experimental error and even fraud, and was held out as a prime example of pseudoscience. The United States Patent and Trademark Office has rejected most patent applications related to cold fusion since then....

...A second session started the next day with other negative reports, and 8 of the 9 leading speakers said that they ruled the Utah claim as dead. Dr. Steven E. Koonin of Caltech called the Utah report a result of "the incompetence and delusion of Pons and Fleischmann". The audience of scientists sat in stunned silence for a moment before bursting into applause. Dr. Douglas R. O. Morrison, a physicist representing CERN, called the entire episode an example of pathological science.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion
Hmmm. Now who should I believe here in the case of the WTC collapse? A well respected, world leading authority on structural engineering - and the man who helped build the towers - or a scientist with a very, err, unusual background.

Tough one, eh?
 
Ok, things we know:

1. We can count the number of external columns broken by the impacts.

2. We know the temperature of the fires (fed by office contents, not jet fuel, which burnt out in 10 minutes)

3. We know the response of steel to heat (ie. it gets weaker. Doesn't have to melt)

4. We know that fire protection was poorly applied to many of the structural members and connections. (I saw the photos, but can't remember where)

5. We know the weight of all the structural elements of the WTC.

From these things, any half-decent structural engineer could work out if the impact damage plus the fire weakening would be enough to start a collapse. I know a few engineers, but I'm not sure if they would have the time to do such an analysis. Surely one of the more committed truth-seekers has done this basic research (so as to confirm or disconfirm the similar modelling done for/by the USG)?
 
Does the thread title mean that the Iranian President is trying to make Bush wear a burkha?

Cover up...geddit?

*gets coat*
 
Crispy said:
I know a few engineers, but I'm not sure if they would have the time to do such an analysis. Surely one of the more committed truth-seekers has done this basic research (so as to confirm or disconfirm the similar modelling done for/by the USG)?
I wonder if any have bothered to ask the most suitably qualified engineer about the WTC on the planet: Leslie Robinson?

Oh hang on, he's already offered hs expert analysis, but they don't like that answer so they'll complete ignore his opinions.

:rolleyes:
 
Yossarian said:
I can't believe anyone's trying to defend Steven Jones - who the hell would have any faith at all in a scientist who rejects the theory of evolution in favour of 'intelligent design'?

http://www.tungate.com/Death_Before_Adam.htm

??? first line in your link . . .
"In this essay, Elder Jones shows how death before Adam makes sense from a scriptural sense. He is not necessarily saying that evolution of man is true or untrue."
 
He goes on to say that *if* evolution did happen, it was God's hand guiding it uphill to create more advanced lifeforms - sounds like intelligent design to me!
 
Jazzz said:
Having a go at his religion is a cheap and ridiculous shot editor.

He's a fucking Mormon! They've got one of the silliest religions out there, nearly as bad as the Scientologists! I think his wacky religous beliefs are completely relevant to the credibility of his wacky theories.
 
TheLostProphet said:
:oops:

Oh dear lord - this makes Iran a far more dangerous prospect than previously thought.

They're not just militant muslims - they're conspiraloons as well :eek: :eek:
They wouldn't dare threaten us! We could just unleash the royal familiy (aka giant blood drinking lizards) upon them!
 
Bob_the_lost said:
They wouldn't dare threaten us! We could just unleash the royal familiy (aka giant blood drinking lizards) upon them!

:D My own personal conspiracy theory is based on the Scottish control of Britain :mad:

Look at Blair, Brown, Reid - all of them.....scots :eek:

Maybe that's the answer - ship the tartan troika out to Iran :cool:
 
TheLostProphet said:
:D My own personal conspiracy theory is based on the Scottish control of Britain :mad:

Look at Blair, Brown, Reid - all of them.....scots :eek:

Maybe that's the answer - ship the tartan troika out to Iran :cool:

Aye but Blair speaks in an interminably posh English accent that belies any Scottishness he has (that said my accent could hardly be described as Scottish). It's only his name and the fact that he went to Fettes that are the giveaways.
 
Jazzz said:
Maybe no-one.

However, science doesn't require faith, does it? Isn't that in fact your point? ;)

another wackmeister scientist with loonytune ideas

Ummm...Newton might have been a genius, but he was also a religious nutter who preferred the mysticism and obscuritanism of alchemy to actual scientific method.

He also stared at the sun and did experiments on himself.

Einstein also believed in God - in fact it was his belief in God that led him to reject quantum physics because 'God doesn't play dice'.
 
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