Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
There's also Nigeria, where 5,000+ were killed and more than 3,000 kidnapped in 22. Not to mention persecution in pakistan
Immigration to the UK - do you have concerns?
- Thread starter mojo pixy
- Start date
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Why is it a concern?
maomao
普費斯
Picking on minorities is a bit of a thing all over the world.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
To echo others, please don't link to ChatGPT-generated output. You need to check each of these yourself to see which ones it has made up. I would put money on at least one being a total fabrication. It's what ChatGPT does.
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
15 church burnings over a decade. How many tens of thousands of non-church buildings? Give us the whole picture.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Not even that. It's ChatGPT, so you can't trust a single word of it.
kalidarkone
Bringing YOU round.....
Yup, pretty much all the Christians I know are Nigerian, Jamacian and Southern India-Kerala.
Cid
Proper break this time
Carol Vorderman has waded into the class debate:
I mean I know we assumed she was a tory for a bit, but fair.
I mean I know we assumed she was a tory for a bit, but fair.
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Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I suspect when they talk about European law enforcement they particularly have Frontex in mind, whose methods are, to say the least unsavoury. Here are some links:
EU: Frontex Complicit in Abuse in Libya
The use by the EU’s border agency, Frontex, of aerial surveillance to enable the Libyan Coast Guard to intercept migrant boats, knowing that migrants and asylum seekers will face systematic and widespread abuse when forcibly returned to Libya, makes Frontex complicit in the abuse, Human Rights...www.hrw.org
Frontex, UK strengthen border management cooperation
Kindly share this articleFrontex, the European Border and Coast Guard Agency, and the United Kingdom’s Home Office have signed a working arrangement to pave the way for close cooperation in border management and security. This formal signing embodies our joint commitment to enhancing safety and...voiceforafricanmigrants.org
These articles and this one below show the problems with immigration policy. Whilst not using the kind of racist language of far right this kind of way to deal with those trying to come to Europe from north Africa is on the quiet callous.
As articles say under international human rights law there are issues here. The opaque and unaccountable way this EU agency works seems to me deliberate.
There are two kinds of immigration policy. The in your face keep them out of the right. And the supposedly sensible with safeguards one of EU.
Except that the reality is far removed from the public face. And the two aren't that different in the end.
It's why I'm not supporting immigration controls.
Every time I read about them they aren't rational or fair. And imo racism is involved. Even if it's denied.
As far as what new Labour government have said I'm assuming working with Frontex which was agreed with last government is continuing.
Thanks for the articles teqniq . Give a lot of insight into how immigration policy works in reality.
Frontex: a public agency incapable of accountability
As the movement of people across the Mediterranean has become securitised, Frontex has come to the fore—not to good effect.
www.socialeurope.eu
teqniq
DisMembered
It's interesting that you make reference to the language of the far right, because:These articles and this one below show the problems with immigration policy. Whilst not using the kind of racist language of far right this kind of way to deal with those trying to come to Europe from north Africa is on the quiet callous.
As articles say under international human rights law there are issues here. The opaque and unaccountable way this EU agency works seems to me deliberate.
There are two kinds of immigration policy. The in your face keep them out of the right. And the supposedly sensible with safeguards one of EU.
Except that the reality is far removed from the public face. And the two aren't that different in the end.
It's why I'm not supporting immigration controls.
Every time I read about them they aren't rational or fair. And imo racism is involved. Even if it's denied.
As far as what new Labour government have said I'm assuming working with Frontex which was agreed with last government is continuing.
Thanks for the articles teqniq . Give a lot of insight into how immigration policy works in reality.
Frontex: a public agency incapable of accountability
As the movement of people across the Mediterranean has become securitised, Frontex has come to the fore—not to good effect.
Former Frontex chief joins French far right for EU election
Fabrice Leggeri quit Frontex in 2022 after an investigation found wrongdoing at the border agency.
www.politico.eu
eatmorecheese
He's fallen out of the car again
A slight deviation, but reading this summary of a UN review about race discrimination in the UK since 2016 is pretty sobering.
No wonder some Asian and African governments have travel advisories in place for their nationals in the UK.
UK must curb rise in racist hate speech by politicians and public figures, UN says
No wonder some Asian and African governments have travel advisories in place for their nationals in the UK.
UK must curb rise in racist hate speech by politicians and public figures, UN says
Happy Tree
maagilises metsas
I am impressed as a French teacher, lol. Bourgeois is an adjective so can be either masculine or feminine. La bourgeoisie is a noun and is feminine. You can also use the adjective as a noun referring to a person, like a bourgeois male would be un bourgeois and a female would be une bourgeoise. So you could refer to a male person as un petit bourgeois and to the class in general as la petite bourgeoisie. Or just say bourge for short
Anyway, immigration. Love it. Cultures and societies change over time. Embrace it and understand that older people will generally not like this change.
Funky_monks
Neo-Rustic
I started following this thread with interest, but it soon became peak U75 - a load of people broadly on the left of politics (and yes, I include Spymaster in this, because I understood the context of his "lefty scum" comments instead of clutching my pearls, like some) hurling ridiculous insults such as "fascist" at other left wing people who aren't quite far enough to the left for their liking, followed by some navel gazing about the meaning of class and whether or not al sole traders are petit-bourgeoise.
Top drawer stuff.
Top drawer stuff.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
Outlefting... It really should be in the dictionary.
PTK
Paul Kegan
Ethiopia? Is that not a predominantly Christian country?
PTK
Paul Kegan
"Over time"? Can things evolve instantly? No. Can the speed of evolution of anything be a cause of concern?I am impressed as a French teacher, lol. Bourgeois is an adjective so can be either masculine or feminine. La bourgeoisie is a noun and is feminine. You can also use the adjective as a noun referring to a person, like a bourgeois male would be un bourgeois and a female would be une bourgeoise. So you could refer to a male person as un petit bourgeois and to the class in general as la petite bourgeoisie. Or just say bourge for short
Anyway, immigration. Love it. Cultures and societies change over time. Embrace it and understand that older people will generally not like this change.
PTK
Paul Kegan
I try not to be Prolier-than-thou.
As Marx was German, surely we should be saying Kleine Bürgerlich?
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I've just searched the thread and can't find where fascist as an insult is used.
Maybe I missed a post.
Where did this happen?
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
I see you've added hyperbole and making shit up others haven't said.
Top drawer stuff!
(The rest you said was right, but you seem to have inadvertently fallen into the same trap as that which you criticize)
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
What I'm learning from this thread - if anything - is that immigration is more of a social problem to be solved than a social benefit to be celebrated, and that it's basic common sense to blame immigration and immigrants for nearly any problem created by government policy.
Blaming government policy instead of immigration for the slow death of impoverished communities is not an idea for reflection, and doesn't merit a response by anyone who doesn't already think that way.
A minority's fear of cultural change is something more of us need to understand and address, and on no account must we expect better of our fellow citizens because that's an arrogant display of privilege (even if expressed by someone who isn't middle class) Utopian ideas of social justice are simply out of touch, unrealistic, and ridiculous.
In short, we all need to get better at fash-whispering so as not to set them off again with too much wokeness.
Blaming government policy instead of immigration for the slow death of impoverished communities is not an idea for reflection, and doesn't merit a response by anyone who doesn't already think that way.
A minority's fear of cultural change is something more of us need to understand and address, and on no account must we expect better of our fellow citizens because that's an arrogant display of privilege (even if expressed by someone who isn't middle class) Utopian ideas of social justice are simply out of touch, unrealistic, and ridiculous.
In short, we all need to get better at fash-whispering so as not to set them off again with too much wokeness.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
I guess it depends on whether you actually want to change things or just moan about them on the internet.
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
One thing is certain - there is going to be a lot more. An increasing number of countries are going to become unliveable with rising temperatures and conflicts over resources. This is going to have to be managed - whether through some kind of humanitarian process of allocation of refugees globally, or through shooting people at borders. It's a much bigger issue than the feelings of Concerned of Southport. But the drivers of migration just seem utterly absent from the public debate, and hence public understanding.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
I'm not 'changing' anything; at my age, isolated in a very 'white' small town in the rural south west it's all I can do to maintain my own mental health most days.
My son, however - mixed race and child of an immigrant - might well grow into a man who can see things change. I'm at least making sure he has the kinds of understanding he needs, to make sense and success of his world. He already encounters racism and what I'd call a kind of juvenile anti-wokeness even in kids his age - kids being raised, no doubt, by people like the recent race-rioters. All I can do it help him put it in perspective.
By the way, I hate to break it to you but all we do here is moan about stuff. God-emperor of mankind doesn't follow these threads, nothing here is changing society.
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
Back to that fucking thread where it was argued that a window cleaner with their own ladder ( or one of those long pole things) couldn’t be working class… mind you I think that was the same thread where some of the usual suspects put forth the argument that you could only be working class if you were unemployed …
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
Not helped by the fact that so many on the far right are climate changed deniers.
maomao
普費斯
Actually, the argument started about a 'working class' person objecting to the ULEZ but it turned out the person in question was a small business owner with their own van. The argument was that they could pay the bloody ULEZ and were probably in a better position than the kids dying of asthma in inner city tower blocks, not that they were a class traitor. You then did reducto ad absurdium on what had been said and ran round the boards like an excited twelve-year-old screeching 'you can't be working class if you've got your own bucket' till everyone was thoroughly fucking sick of it.
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