That’s a colossal misrepresentation of what has been discussed on this thread. It’s the misrepresentation of somebody that has no interest in understanding an issue beyond their current preconceived notions, and prefers to take refuge in caricature and mockery.
Immigration to the UK - do you have concerns?
- Thread starter mojo pixy
- Start date
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
Good times .
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
The phrases “working class” and “middle class” are the culprits, here. They don’t really mean much beyond the marketisation of demography (eg for the purposes of marketers). That’s why it’s more meaningful to talk of the proletariat and the petite bourgeoisie (or other classifications) —classes identified for analytical purposes in terms of social relations and power dynamics.
You disagree with the person whose points you’re misrepresenting, when he says that you’re misrepresenting them? Well.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
You're telling someone who's posted something what they really mean by it? Well.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Speak for yourself mate.
You described in great detail something that misrepresents the thing you were trying to caricature. That’s just a fact. For example, if you didn’t mean that, “What I'm learning from this thread - if anything - is that immigration is more of a social problem to be solved than a social benefit to be celebrated, and that it's basic common sense to blame immigration and immigrants for nearly any problem created by government policy” then maybe don’t say those words?
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
We need a mass deportation of race-baiting grifters.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Oakeshott is the biggest fucking tool that's ever written for the Telegraph.
Makes Farage and JRM look reasonable.
ska invita
back on the other side
yeah back to Germany or Denmark or wherever they came from
Isabel is in a relationship with Richard Tice btw
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
It’s hard to tell with these grifters just how sincere they are, but that’s a provocative statement. I wish I don’t feel I now have to read the article
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Don't forget your bingo card.
Frankly, I don't have serious concerns about immigration, in that it seems to me that we are capable of integrating people of different races and backgrounds without leading to serious ethnic conflict. It is not surprising that some people feel uncomfortable with society changing but I'm cool with it and I think it is mostly beneficial.
I think it's misdirection to focus on immigration as the cause of the riots. If it was genuinely a product of failed immigration policies, then we would have seen racial violence exploding in genuinely multicultural cities, but we chiefly saw violence in some of the least multicultural places. In actual multicultural cities we saw no-shows or paltry turn outs for the far right and inspiring displays of unity and cross-cultural solidarity instead.
It was more a product of the vast far right social-media ecosystem. Tommy Robinson is funded by US based Trump backer Patrick Michael Byrne, who encouraged Trump to try and overturn 2020 elections and there is a trail of such dark money behind such right wing influencesrs. You have Musk (another Trump backer and ally) taking over Twitter and using it as a conduit to spread far-right misinformation. You also have Rumble, linked to Peter Thiel and JD Vance. Then Gab, Truth Social etc. On top of that there is the Russia connection and both Russia and the US far right are deploying bots to comment sections all over.
Obviously there are other factors at play and we have to ask why they found an ear. But it seems a common factor was people who a) are in poorer areas and may feel a sense of decline and alienation and b) have no or limited interaction with migrants and thus primarily get their information about them from right wing propaganda networks.
To me, this says that it was ultimately a failed attempt by the ecosystem to ignite racial conflict, in the grand scheme of things they activated very few people - mostly people on the outskirts of society - and only in mostly white areas. For people whose article of faith is that Europe is destined for civil war (race war) due to immigration this was not the result they wanted. To be honest they believe their own propaganda too much and vastly overestimated the degree of racial division and tension in the UK.
The significance of this lies in the capture of social media networks by the far right and this might be seen as a precursor - or trial run - as to what is coming in the US when/if Trump loses the election.
I think it's misdirection to focus on immigration as the cause of the riots. If it was genuinely a product of failed immigration policies, then we would have seen racial violence exploding in genuinely multicultural cities, but we chiefly saw violence in some of the least multicultural places. In actual multicultural cities we saw no-shows or paltry turn outs for the far right and inspiring displays of unity and cross-cultural solidarity instead.
It was more a product of the vast far right social-media ecosystem. Tommy Robinson is funded by US based Trump backer Patrick Michael Byrne, who encouraged Trump to try and overturn 2020 elections and there is a trail of such dark money behind such right wing influencesrs. You have Musk (another Trump backer and ally) taking over Twitter and using it as a conduit to spread far-right misinformation. You also have Rumble, linked to Peter Thiel and JD Vance. Then Gab, Truth Social etc. On top of that there is the Russia connection and both Russia and the US far right are deploying bots to comment sections all over.
Obviously there are other factors at play and we have to ask why they found an ear. But it seems a common factor was people who a) are in poorer areas and may feel a sense of decline and alienation and b) have no or limited interaction with migrants and thus primarily get their information about them from right wing propaganda networks.
To me, this says that it was ultimately a failed attempt by the ecosystem to ignite racial conflict, in the grand scheme of things they activated very few people - mostly people on the outskirts of society - and only in mostly white areas. For people whose article of faith is that Europe is destined for civil war (race war) due to immigration this was not the result they wanted. To be honest they believe their own propaganda too much and vastly overestimated the degree of racial division and tension in the UK.
The significance of this lies in the capture of social media networks by the far right and this might be seen as a precursor - or trial run - as to what is coming in the US when/if Trump loses the election.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
They always have to escalate. That's how you stand out from the crowded field of tabloid attack dogs, you go that one step further then they're willing to. Do they believe any of it? Do they work themselves up into this kind of frenzy for real so they can justify what they do for a living? My gut says no, and that they know perfectly well that they're spouting shit, but ultimately I don't really care. Consequences are what worry me, not motivations.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Iceland. Specifically whichever volcano they've got up there that's currently erupting.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
And how exactly does that misrepresent a point you've made?
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
I am speaking for myself, describing what I myself read here on a daily basis.
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
I don't think you've actually read this thread, you've just made assumptions about what people might say. Nobody has said anything like what you claim.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Maybe, but it's not directed at anyone. It's directed at an attitude that apparently nobody here has expressed (the quote above)
I'm all for understanding, I try my best to understand the mindset that so fears cultural change or whatever that it leads people to swallow Reform type lies, or look up to eg. Farage or Braverman and sympathise with their attitudes.
On the other hand I'm also pro-immigration and anti-racism. I argue the toss with conspiracists whenever I encounter them and do my best to point out whenever necesary that the state of things is caused by governments not foreigners.
Trying to find a balance between those two impulses, is where I find the tension I'm trying to express.
Funky_monks
Neo-Rustic
I believe it was aimed at Spymaster (or "people like him") way back along.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
OK, you may be right, but searching the word doesn’t bring it up.
But maybe we can move forward by focussing on saying what we think ourselves, rather than trying to read other people’s minds.
PTK
Paul Kegan
“Gentrification” is a topic that has not been mentioned so far in this thread, as far as I know. The movement of richer people to areas where poorer people live. If we are thinking about the movement of people and the possible cultural changes that this may cause, then perhaps we ought to ponder how gentrification fits in to this discussion.
Another thing that occurs to me: is there a "class" aspect to asylum seeking? Is there any evidence, for example, that the millions of refugees from Syria who live in neighbouring countries come from poorer economic strata than those who flee to Europe?
Another thing that occurs to me: is there a "class" aspect to asylum seeking? Is there any evidence, for example, that the millions of refugees from Syria who live in neighbouring countries come from poorer economic strata than those who flee to Europe?
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Which post? As I searched and cannot find it
Also spymaster didn't call anyone leftist scum.
The way I read the original post by you is that there are people who hurl insults like fascist but if one is called leftist scum then you shouldn't be so touchy.
That framing of issue portrays it as intolerant lefties who are out of touch with the real world.
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Funky_monks
Neo-Rustic
I know he didn't, that was my point. But lots of people seem to think he did. He used it to refer to people on the left who assault police.
And there's a fuckload of "out of touch with the real world" on this thread.
PursuedByBears
Go stick your head in a pig
Fairly sure this will be European border policy when climate refugees ramp up in coming years
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