Immigration to the UK - do you have concerns?

[Gramsci]

One thing is certain - there is going to be a lot more. An increasing number of countries are going to become unliveable with rising temperatures and conflicts over resources. This is going to have to be managed - whether through some kind of humanitarian process of allocation of refugees globally, or through shooting people at borders. It's a much bigger issue than the feelings of Concerned of Southport. But the drivers of migration just seem utterly absent from the public debate, and hence public understanding.

But it is being managed.

Government has said that it will work closer with EU

EU isn't actually shooting people. But its letting them drown in sea, pushing back into arms of thugs in Libya. A fortress Europe has and still is being built. The actual structures and organisation to do this are under constant refinement.

What is holding it back is that western governments like ours signed up post war to international rules on how asylum seekers should be treated.

I think the question is wether in future there will be political pressure to withdraw from them. Saw this with last government over Rwanda.

 

[Gramsci]

I know he didn't, that was my point. But lots of people seem to think he did. He used it to refer to people on the left who assault police.

And there's a fuckload of "out of touch with the real world" on this thread.

I've put quite a lot of mine own personal experience in this thread to show I'm not out of touch. As have others

 

[LakieLady]

Oakeshott is the biggest fucking tool that's ever written for the Telegraph.

Makes Farage and JRM look reasonable.

The only thing Isobel Oakeshott is any use for is making anagrams out of her name. "Total shit bloke" sadly leaves a few letters over.

 

[Gramsci]

Actually, the argument started about a 'working class' person objecting to the ULEZ but it turned out the person in question was a small business owner with their own van. The argument was that they could pay the bloody ULEZ and were probably in a better position than the kids dying of asthma in inner city tower blocks, not that they were a class traitor. You then did reducto ad absurdium on what had been said and ran round the boards like an excited twelve-year-old screeching 'you can't be working class if you've got your own bucket' till everyone was thoroughly fucking sick of it.

You have reminded me why I have that poster on ignore.

Ignore function can help with my blood pressure.

 

[Gramsci]

“Gentrification” is a topic that has not been mentioned so far in this thread, as far as I know. The movement of richer people to areas where poorer people live. If we are thinking about the movement of people and the possible cultural changes that this may cause, then perhaps we ought to ponder how gentrification fits in to this discussion.

Opposing gentrification has been compared to akin to racism.

I don't agree with that view btw

Imo a major difference is that even if I did embrace the cultural changes that richer people brought I would not be able to stay as gentrification prices me out.

Whereas when I first moved to area people thought I was mad. It cheap and easier then.

Only reason I stay in my area is because I have council flat.

Unfortunately the partial gentrification of my area gets equated with whiteness

I was helping someone with a repair problem. The council not getting on with it. Common issue. At end , and they were pleased I helped them, they asked And how long have you been here? Get this more now.

The assumption being as a white person I wasn't from my area. Despite living in area for decades

 

[LakieLady]

“Gentrification” is a topic that has not been mentioned so far in this thread, as far as I know. The movement of richer people to areas where poorer people live. If we are thinking about the movement of people and the possible cultural changes that this may cause, then perhaps we ought to ponder how gentrification fits in to this discussion.

There's the "Down From London" (or other nearby city) attitude, too. It was commonplace when I moved to Sussex, but you rarely hear DFL's moaned about now.

 

[Gramsci]

I see Oakeshott is at it again.

View attachment 439433

What an arsehole.

Tried to read the article but its behind a paywall.

Labour facing backlash over immigration crackdown with plans to ramp up deportations

Home secretary also criticised over plans to reopen two troubled immigration detention centres, Campsfield in Oxfordshire and Haslar in Hampshire

www.independent.co.uk

Given Home Secretary says they are going to increase size of removal centres and ramp up deportations Id like to know what she thinks is lacking in Yvette Cooper plan.

Yvette Cooper does not use words like shock and awe but her plans are saying we aren't going to mess around.

Which I'm assuming some are happy with here.

 

[Spymaster]

Also spymaster didn't call anyone leftist scum.

Can we stop this please?

It's only Ska, and a couple of his rectum-sniffers who 'like' his posts, who push this perfidy; based on other beefs.

No one else believes it.

It's done and dusted.

 

[eatmorecheese]

Can we stop this please?

It's only Ska, and a couple of his rectum-sniffers who 'like' his posts, who push this perfidy; based on other beefs.

No one else believes it.

It's done and dusted.

It isn't if you insert a personal insult in your post, to be fair.

But I agree, leave it it ain't worth it, etc.

 

[scifisam]

Tried to read the article but its behind a paywall.

Labour facing backlash over immigration crackdown with plans to ramp up deportations

Home secretary also criticised over plans to reopen two troubled immigration detention centres, Campsfield in Oxfordshire and Haslar in Hampshire

www.independent.co.uk

Given Home Secretary says they are going to increase size of removal centres and ramp up deportations Id like to know what she thinks is lacking in Yvette Cooper plan.

Yvette Cooper does not use words like shock and awe but her plans are saying we aren't going to mess around.

Which I'm assuming some are happy with here.

Re the bit I bolded: who are you thinking of? Has anyone here said they want loads of deportations?

Your posts have been interesting in this thread, so maybe some people have been outright send 'em back style racists and I happen to have them on ignore, because I certainly haven't actually seen any that are like that at all.

 

[Gramsci]

Re the bit I bolded: who are you thinking of? Has anyone here said they want loads of deportations?

Your posts have been interesting in this thread, so maybe some people have been outright send 'em back style racists and I happen to have them on ignore, because I certainly haven't actually seen any that are like that at all.

When I have directly asked what in practise a poster wants then what I've found is all I get is silence.

I've made it clear here I don't support immigration controls.

So all I can assume is that the present policy on immigration is fine by those posting here who support controls.

The present policy outlined by Yvette Cooper is to continue with the hostile environment ( excluding those windrush people), drop the Rwandan scheme, enlarge immigration holding centres ,start to ramp up deportations using flights and increase them.

And to add government says it will work more closely with EU. Which as it happens is continuation of Tory policy.

So in my books that's loads more deportations. As last government was incompetent to say the least. Basically Labour are saying they will do what the Tories promised and failed to do.

And I didn't say anything about people being racists in the post you quote so your reading into my post something I'm not saying.

I have issues with what this government is doing. There are alternatives.

 

[Gramsci]

I was going to post this tomorrow but as this has come up here is one alternative to this government policy

JCWI Joint Council for the Welfare of Immigrants say the Hostile environment policy, which still exists, should be ditched.

And replaced with routes for the undocumented to gain right to stay here.

It means repealing the rules expecting landlords and employers to act as immigration officials.

What are the alternatives to the Hostile Environment?​

The Government itself accepts that the vast majority of undocumented people have done and will do no harm in the UK. Instead of punishing people for becoming undocumented, the Government should enable and support people to get secure status. Currently, routes to status for those who are undocumented can take decades and cost tens of thousands of pounds. At JCWI we are calling on the Government to create new affordable and accessible routes to status.

The Hostile Environment explained

Elvis (not his real name), a Filipino man, died at home of suspected coronavirus, too afraid to seek medical help in case he got deported. Michael lost his job as a special needs teacher and was…

jcwi.org.uk

So instead of continuing the Tory policies on immigration but doing them more efficiently ,as this government is saying ,have a rethink of immigration rules instead

This to me is good compromise for those who don't support controls and those who do.

Because at present, despite the Windrush scandal, what May brought in still stands.

This is just one example.

Complete rethink of asylum seekers should also be on the cards. But that's another post. This covers economic migrants and visa overstayers for example. I've met them over the years in London.

So trying to get away from the your Fascist/ your leftie scum debate here is one idea.

What do people think?

 

[Gramsci]

Above post was a bit rushed. As I was going to do it tomorrow.

Here is pdf of the JCWI on what they are saying should be abolished and then replaced with routes to stay. Most of these people are no danger to the public and just want to work and live here.

• Repealing the Right to Rent scheme, which was found by both the High Court and the Court of
Appeal to cause racial discrimination in the private rental market;
• Ending Right to Work checks, which render people vulnerable to exploitation and trafficking, and
make it harder for labour inspectorates to do their jobs effectively;
• Scrapping the No Recourse to Public Funds condition, which discriminates against women, disabled
people and Black and Brown people, and pushes thousands into poverty and insecure housing
• Roll back NHS charging and data-sharing regimes, which deter people from seeking healthcare,
undermine public health measures and make it harder for healthcare workers to do their jobs;

 

[Gramsci]

One of the worst things about Hostile Environment was State forcing people to be snitches. Rather than the state do the job itself

Most unpleasant for people I know when it was first introduced who suddenly had to do it.

 

[Gramsci]

And what I'm suggesting in above posts isn't that lefty really. Though it can appear to be.

 

[Humberto]

One thing is certain - there is going to be a lot more. An increasing number of countries are going to become unliveable with rising temperatures and conflicts over resources. This is going to have to be managed - whether through some kind of humanitarian process of allocation of refugees globally, or through shooting people at borders. It's a much bigger issue than the feelings of Concerned of Southport. But the drivers of migration just seem utterly absent from the public debate, and hence public understanding.

Would it be right to say the majority of people coming over on small crafts are asylum seekers/refugees? To you or whoever would wish to pick up on that.

And that those numbers are a relatively small proportion of immigration numbers (permanent and temporary) overall. Which is all neccessary within the context of current socioeconomic reality and within the UK government's commitment to international treaties. Including, supposedly, running a functioning asylum system.

And instead of contextualising all this in terms of their mandate and supposed public service within this environment, they are all kowtowing to the Daily Express and GB News by willfully or incompetently allowing them to set the agenda and its parameters. Day in day out. And these 'public servants' retreat into talking tough to mollify them whilst denying or obscuring the fact that this is the system that they are overseeing and which we live within in the UK. If so (and it is early days to some extent), the madness and obsession will only continue and be back in its own good time.

Fucking hell, what a shitshow.

 

[krtek a houby]

Can we stop this please?

It's only Ska, and a couple of his rectum-sniffers who 'like' his posts, who push this perfidy; based on other beefs.

No one else believes it.

It's done and dusted.

"rectum-sniffers"

Wtf?

 

[andysays]

So, is the word "rectum" considered inappropriate language in all circumstances, or only when it's attached with a hyphen to other words such as "sniffers"?

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

So, is the word "rectum" considered inappropriate language in all circumstances, or only when it's attached with a hyphen to other words such as "sniffers"?

stop being such an arsehole!

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

A sensible government would provide aid and infrastructure support to those countries where the most migrants are coming from. But long term thinking is not really a thing they do, unless it’s weapon sales for pension funds.

 

[maomao]

A sensible government would provide aid and infrastructure support to those countries where the most migrants are coming from. But long term thinking is not really a thing they do, unless it’s weapon sales for pension funds.

When the bombs come thundering down it will turn out that was short-term thinking too.

 

[maomao]

Can we stop this please?

It's only Ska, and a couple of his rectum-sniffers who 'like' his posts, who push this perfidy; based on other beefs.

No one else believes it.

It's done and dusted.

I wonder what's so horrifically offensive about 'rectum sniffer' that it gets a warning and a ban when 99% of the cunting people off on these boards remains unmoderated. Has two-tier Kier been made a moderator?

 

[mojo pixy]

It's bumming me out, dude

 

[strung out]

Ok, own up, who reported Spymaster for calling ska invita a rectum-sniffer?

 

[_Russ_]

Seriously, banned for that?.
Did it hit a nerve?, fucking pathetic

 

[maomao]

Seriously, banned for that?.
Did it hit a nerve?, fucking pathetic

It's only three days, it's not the Birmingham Six. I'm just wondering if it's a) preferential treatment to some posters' complaints, or b) anything to do with bottoms is homophobic (which is a bit homophobic itself but it's happened before).

 

[danny la rouge]

Ok, own up, who reported Spymaster for calling ska invita a rectum-sniffer?

I don’t want to be that guy, but he didn’t call ska anything of the sort. He said other people were sniffing ska’s rectum.

 

[maomao]

I don’t want to be that guy, but he didn’t call ska anything of the sort. He said other people were sniffing ska’s rectum.

Your god-level pedantry stands as an inspiration to us all.

 

[danny la rouge]

Your god-level pedantry stands as an inspiration to us all.

I mean, who am I kidding? Of course I want to be that guy.

 

[Gramsci]

Been a good distraction from my posts offering an alternative to the immigration policy of this and last governments.