Immigration "small benefit" to UK

[Dhimmi]

An interesting development, looks like the rich benefit though...

Record levels of immigration have had "little or no impact" on the economic well-being of Britons, an influential House of Lords committee has said.

Instead, competition from immigrants has had a negative impact on the low paid, training for young UK workers and has contributed to high house prices.

The peers, including two ex-chancellors and other Cabinet members, say there should be a cap on immigration levels.

more:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7322825.stm

 

[KeyboardJockey]

The problems caused by mass economic migration have been ignored by Govt for years, those who have questioned it have been called racists and xenophobes. Those on the left who should be defending the workers who have been replaced by cheaper economic migrants have lined up with the Govt and big business that benefits from cheap labour in an unholy alliance that benefits none but the bnp.

The anger caused by the strain on resources by economic migrants has meant that all immigration is now seen by many as a bad thing. Those fleeing oppression have been lumped together in the publics minds with those migrants who fill the jobs that their own children may have done and this has caused sympathy for those in need to virtually disappear.

The importation of cheap labour has adversely affected both the indiginous Brit of all races and creeds and those in dire need of shelter.

The promotion of economic migration is just a short term wallet stuffing enterprise by the ruling classes.

 

[sally_sally]

To true, 4 or 5 years ago I very rarely heard racist comments. Now I hear them daily from people at college, from all walks of life. The whipping boys now seem to be Somalians and Africans, the people picking on them are British born black boys. Some of it will be just old fashioned bullying, some of it isnt.

Sal

 

[poster342002]

The problem is the report suggests capping immigration from outside the EU. This is aiming at completely the wrong target, imo, as most of the recent mass-migration causing such concern has been from within the EU itself.

Cutting off entrance to non-EU migrants will do little or nothing to address the issue.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

The problem is the report suggests capping immigration from outside the EU. This is aiming at completely the wrong target, imo, as most of the recent mass-migration causing such concern has been from within the EU itself.

Cutting off entrance to non-EU migrants will do little or nothing to address the issue.

Couldn't agree more. Its the EU immigration that is causing the problems.

 

[Skimix]

I remember an article in the Economist a few years ago comparing growth rates in the US and EU and they made the point that a significant amount of overall GDP growth in the US was from immigration. In the US total GDP was growing at an impressive rate but per head of the population it wasn't growing as quickly.

Of course its in the governments interests to highlight overall GDP growth right now when its benefiting from a significant increase in the number of people of working ago arriving in the country. When/if a lot of these people go back the overall increase in GDP will be reduced, I wonder if then they'll start highlighting GDP per head.

 

[poster342002]

Couldn't agree more. Its the EU immigration that is causing the problems.

Which they have absolutely no intention of doing anything about - instead choosing to red-herring the issue with talk of curbing non-eu migration.

 

[rover07]

*YAWN*

Immigrants to blame for high house prices, credit crunch, economic downturn.

Nothing to do with the finance industry or selling-off of social housing then.

 

[zenie]

The problem is the report suggests capping immigration from outside the EU. This is aiming at completely the wrong target, imo, as most of the recent mass-migration causing such concern has been from within the EU itself.

Cutting off entrance to non-EU migrants will do little or nothing to address the issue.

Yeh I've just said that elsewhere.

If they want to look at the problem the UK has to either leave the EU and Europe, or provide more public services and raise taxes. This can't go on forever the way it currently stands.

I also predict more of a backlash once the EU migrants start applying for skilled/trained work rather than unskilled/labouring types. It's a lot easier to better yourself when you fluently speak the language and you'll be able to get better paid jobs.

 

[Belushi]

*YAWN*

Immigrants to blame for high house prices, credit crunch, economic downturn.

Where does it say that?

 

[rover07]

Which they have absolutely no intention of doing anything about - instead choosing to red-herring the issue with talk of curbing non-eu migration.

I blame the Jews.

 

[skyscraper101]

I have no problem with EU immigration and to reverse any decision on allowing EU citizens on entering the UK beyond 2011 would go against the Four Freedoms of European Union law which we have already signed up to.

Changing this would mean a significant u-turn for the UK government. Bear in mind, EU states have the right to impose temporary immigration control and most have to some extent. The UK has allowed more freedom of access but we will all have to abide by the same laws in three years time so changing this would only damage our standing in the EU as it would suggest a major rejection of the third of the Four Freedoms: The free movement of persons (and citizenship), including free movement of workers.

I'm not saying there hasn't been a negative impact in some respect of UK workers but I think the successful integration and development of all our fellow EU states is an important long term investment which we can all benefit from.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

I blame the Jews.

Fuck me your original

 

[poster342002]

*YAWN*

Immigrants to blame for high house prices, credit crunch, economic downturn.

Nothing to do with the finance industry or selling-off of social housing then.

It's both - mass migration exacerbates the problems caused by the latter.

 

[rover07]

Where does it say that?

3rd line of OP

 

[KeyboardJockey]

It's both - mass migration exacerbates the problems caused by the latter.

Thats a very good point. Screaming about the iniquities of immigration OR screaming about the iniquities of capitalism is wrong. One problem exacerbates another.

 

[Belushi]

3rd line of OP

It actually says

Instead, competition from immigrants has had a negative impact on the low paid, training for young UK workers and has contributed to high house prices.

which is quite different to;

Immigrants to blame for high house prices, credit crunch, economic downturn.

 

[poster342002]

I have no problem with EU immigration and to reverse any decision on allowing EU citizens on entering the UK beyond 2011 would go against the Four Freedoms of European Union law which we have already signed up to.

Changing this would mean a significant u-turn for the UK government. Bear in mind, EU states have the right to impose temporary immigration control and most have to some extent. The UK has allowed more freedom of access but we will all have to abide by the same laws in three years time so changing this would only damage our standing in the EU as it would suggest a major rejection of the third of the Four Freedoms: The free movement of persons (and citizenship), including free movement of workers.

I'm not saying there hasn't been a negative impact in some respect of UK workers but I think the successful integration and development of all our fellow EU states is an important long term investment which we can all benefit from.

Oh, well, if doing anything about the matter would go against the precious Four Freedoms of European Union law, we'd better just let things go on as they are, then?

 

[rover07]

Fuck me your original

Well it's the same old story...whenever there is an economic downturn due to the fuck up of the free market economy, immigrants/outsiders get the blame. Because it can't possibly be the system itself.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Well it's the same old story...whenever there is an economic downturn due to the fuck up of the free market economy, immigrants/outsiders get the blame. Because it can't possibly be the system itself.

Its both IMO. There are problems caused by mass economic migration which are exacerbating the resource problems here.

 

[poster342002]

Well it's the same old story...whenever there is an economic downturn due to the fuck up of the free market economy, immigrants/outsiders get the blame. Because it can't possibly be the system itself.

As I said, the mass migration compounds and exacerbates the problems caused by the initial fuckup of the system. And it's those at the bottom of the heap who suffer the worst impacts of it - as this report itself has admitted.

 

[skyscraper101]

Oh, well, if doing anything about the matter would go against the precious Four Freedoms of European Union law, we'd better just let things go on as they are, then?

Basically, yes. As it is a fundamental part of EU membership - without which it would be hard to justify our position in the EU and we could see ourselves sidelined or membership withdrawn in part (or full) and the UK subsequently becomes more isolated as an economy which serves nobody well when the EU has to compete against Asian and American economies more than ever.

 

[rover07]

Before mass migration (pre-ww2)...was there plentiful, cheap housing available for workers....NO. Its the system that is the problem not the number of people living here.

(edited out swearing)

 

[poster342002]

Basically, yes. As it is a fundamental part of EU membership - without which it would be hard to justify our position in the EU and we could see ourselves sidelined or membership withdrawn in part (or full) and the UK subsequently becomes more isolated as an economy which serves nobody well when the EU has to compete against Asian and American economies more than ever.

What's in it for us at the bottom?

 

[skyscraper101]

What's in it for us at the bottom?

Your right to free movement in your own continent
Freedom to live in any EU state
Tax free movement of goods and services within the EU
Competitive representation in international money markets - meaning that your local economy benefits from lower trade tarrifs and hence basic household goods become more affordable
A defence alliance that helps secure peace within Europe and its neighboring countries
Access to EU development funds which support local economies, infrastructure, and the arts)

I can think of loads of benefits for people at the bottom.

 

[Brainaddict]

I'm not saying there hasn't been a negative impact in some respect of UK workers but I think the successful integration and development of all our fellow EU states is an important long term investment which we can all benefit from.

I agree. I find it interesting how much hatred a lot of the left has these days for the EU's attempts to transcend nationalism (albeit in a limited way). Of course the process has not been as democratic as it should have been, but I think there's a lot of good intentions behind it, mixed in with other motives. I find it strange when people choose to completely ignore the positive sides of the EU. Where's your internationalism people?

And the main reason poorer people in the UK have suffered from this EU migration is just because the government has refused to do the rational thing and admit that, for every 100,000 new people in the country, we need housing for a 100,000 new people, hospitals for 100,000 new people etc. I think it's a bit of a shame when people to react to the government's refusal to do this by saying 'Let's stop EU migration'. Why not just force the government to ramp up service provision as migrants enter and expand the economy? This, to my mind, would be much more in the spirit of socialism and solidarity than talking about immigration limits that would ruin the world's only major attempt to move beyond nationalism.

*ducks the rotten eggs*

 

[tarannau]

Basically, yes. As it is a fundamental part of EU membership - without which it would be hard to justify our position in the EU and we could see ourselves sidelined or membership withdrawn in part (or full) and the UK subsequently becomes more isolated as an economy which serves nobody well when the EU has to compete against Asian and American economies more than ever.

Yep, I'd love to see what the likes of Poster 342002 would suggest as an alternative to the EU. Some kind of primitivist go it alone route, where we'd attempt to be self-sufficient using this island's comparatively meagre natural resources perhaps? Or perhaps we can grab onto America's coat-tails and just hope.

Despite the illusions of grandeur, we're in no position to stand alone. We're no longer an empire - we've no territories to exploit for cheap raw materials anymore. And sadly, with the world's resources stretched and China/India set to improve their lot, things are likely to get harder rather than easier.

Our skills predominantly lie in the financial,creative and service industries now, all of which require more interchange than an increasingly isolationist borders-closed model. Like it or not, we've brought mass migration on ourselves - you can't have your cake and eat it in this increasingly globalised world.

 

[poster342002]

Why not just force the government to ramp up service provision as migrants enter and expand the economy?

How do we force them? It's a lot more easier said than done.

 

[bluestreak]

The peers, including two ex-chancellors and other Cabinet members, say there should be a cap on immigration levels.

Mostly Tories, statistically. And Tory policy at the moment is to oppose immigration because it's an issue that the people are being whipped up into a frenzy about by rising prices, job shortages, and the bullshit Tory media.

This is just telling us what we already know, that government policy is designed to keep the rich rich and the poor poor. The Tories won't do anything to help the poor whatsoever, they can't do anything about immigration that isn't being done already by neoLabour (who only want the immigrants that can work FFS), they can only continue to deflect blame from the system onto the poor who are the victims of it.

Shame on anyone who falls for this divide and rule bullshit.

 

[poster342002]

Yep, I'd love to see what the likes of Poster 342002 would suggest as an alternative to the EU. Some kind of primitivist go it alone route, where we'd attempt to be self-sufficient using this island's comparatively meagre natural resources perhaps?

Well, Norway (or is it Sweden?) somehow manages without being in the EU.