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Immigrant workers are scab workers?

I think, with some exceptions that describes a lot of folk on urban: from the Ed, badgerkitten, bluestreak, right thru to the hard left on here: dennis, smoked out, etc.

I'm a troublemaker and I'm proud of it. There's no honour in rolling over on your back and submitting. there's plenty of honour in fighting for what you believe is right.
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treelover said:
But that is the worrying point,l there isn't an effective left which could help empower/shield/defend/ people when the shit hits the fan. Poverty, inequality is not or has been on the lefts agenda for many years( just look at the disgraceful lack of support for disabled groups fighting welfare cuts) instead its just anti-BNP demos and 'asylum seekers welcome here'! Of course, spontaneous groups, non aligned activists/trade unionists/community campaigners may appear though the turmoil, so i would hope....


btw, what are the economic journals saying about possible crashes?
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Welfare reform isn't really an appropriate example though, because those "left" organisations that might lend support to most causes won't in this case because they don't stand to profit by supporting the disabled. We're not a geographically or socially concentrated grouping of the kind they favour targeting.
 
ViolentPanda said:
I've been involved in politics (sometimes "mainstream"", sometimes "fringe") since I was at secondary school. So what if people are scared? So what if you're the only person on their feet rather than their knees? At least you're trying to DO SOMETHING, at least you're not just letting "them" get away with playing "their" games.
I'm a troublemaker and I'm proud of it. There's no honour in rolling over on your back and submitting. there's plenty of honour in fighting for what you believe is right.
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I agree with that - but when you always find that:

1 you're the ONLY one doing it and;

2 because of this, your ALWAYS getting nowhere - or worse - with your aims.

you do start to wonder just what you're doing banging your head on a brick wall when that wall stays resolutely up and everyone around you just points and titters at your futile efforts. Do they stand with you to help knock that wall down? Do they hell.
 
belboid said:
that is not what I said, nor is it what I meant. It applies in many industries, tho not all as I recognised (possibly belatedly, but still recognised)


Everyone is 'covered' by employment law equally, no matter what there field of work - the question is whether htose laws can be enforced, and whether the employment contracts allow the full effects of the law to kick in. Such a situation is not restricted to my (presumed) line of work at all - and that line isnt local government, btw. it's the also highly insecure vol/com sector (which isnt as bad as building trades I know, but if you think it is entirely lovely hippy employers, you'd be several miles out)
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I'm sorry but short term contacts, less than 2 years, you have no rights.
 
that's still not true snadge. you can sue for unfair dismissal after one year. i realise that in your line even one years work for the same employer is pretty rare, but that isnt the case for most workers.

you do also have much more limited rights immediately you start work - again I realise that they are not that useful in this particular discussin (unl;ess the boss saking you does it for racist/sexist reasons) but its still important to recongise the general principle. wouldnt want anyone reading the thread to think they had got no rights whatsoever when they have a few, even if they arent very very limited.
 
poster342002 said:
I agree with that - but when you always find that:

1 you're the ONLY one doing it and;

2 because of this, your ALWAYS getting nowhere - or worse - with your aims.

you do start to wonder just what you're doing banging your head on a brick wall when that wall stays resolutely up and everyone around you just points and titters at your futile efforts. Do they stand with you to help knock that wall down? Do they hell.
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Believe me, I long ago stopped expecting anyone to "chip in" with help. In my experience those who can be bothered to stir their stumps are a fairly minor section of society (although well-represented on Urban). I'm more used to the sneerers and the critics telling me why something can't possibly be done, or referring me to some tract by a long-dead theorist telling me why I shouldn't do something.
I just get on with whatever "project" I have in mind, nowadays. If someone helps, great. If they don't, that's fine too.

Remember, "those who can, do. Those who can't, criticise". That's as true in our situations as it is with "the arts". :)
 
belboid said:
that's still not true snadge. you can sue for unfair dismissal after one year. i realise that in your line even one years work for the same employer is pretty rare, but that isnt the case for most workers.

you do also have much more limited rights immediately you start work - again I realise that they are not that useful in this particular discussin (unl;ess the boss saking you does it for racist/sexist reasons) but its still important to recongise the general principle. wouldnt want anyone reading the thread to think they had got no rights whatsoever when they have a few, even if they arent very very limited.
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AS I mentioned previously belboid, you have the luxury of knowing your employers comply to the law, millions of us don't though.
 
tbaldwin said:
Erm belboid quite the intrepid investigator....Maybe you should read dennis's thread?????
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I have fool - its another one where you dont say anything about what you would actually do, you just slag othger people off.

Now - are you going to say what your immigration controls would be? Or asnwer any of the other questions? Or are you just going to really crapply slag other people off?
 
belboid said:
I have fool - its another one where you dont say anything about what you would actually do, you just slag othger people off.

Now - are you going to say what your immigration controls would be? Or asnwer any of the other questions? Or are you just going to really crapply slag other people off?
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Would I be right to presume that you're not offering very good odds on him doing 1 or 2, and that three is odds on? :0
 
snadge said:
AS I mentioned previously belboid, you have the luxury of knowing your employers comply to the law, millions of us don't though.
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not so mate - vol/com employers are some of the worst going. most often through sheer ignorance & incompetence rather than deliberate policy, but it still has the same effect. if the worker is in a union there is a much better chance the employer can be embarassed into puttng things right tho it is true.
 
ViolentPanda said:
Would I be right to presume that you're not offering very good odds on him doing 1 or 2, and that three is odds on? :0
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i'm currently giving:
12-1 against*; 200-1 against, and not taking bets on option 3.





*generous odds to draw the punters in
 
belboid said:
that's still not true snadge. you can sue for unfair dismissal after one year. i realise that in your line even one years work for the same employer is pretty rare, but that isnt the case for most workers.

you do also have much more limited rights immediately you start work - again I realise that they are not that useful in this particular discussin (unl;ess the boss saking you does it for racist/sexist reasons) but its still important to recongise the general principle. wouldnt want anyone reading the thread to think they had got no rights whatsoever when they have a few, even if they arent very very limited.
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apart from sexism/racism reasons ( although it is easy to circunavigate that reason in my industry) you have no rights.

I agree that you have limited rights after a year, too easy to abuse though.

I'm lucky, I'm shit hot at my job, I work off a rope ;), A projects manager who I get on with extremely well takes me from job to job with him.

There are millions of people in this country that don't have that luxury though, to them the influx of extremely cheap labour threatens their lifestyle.

Emplyment Law is at fault.

How to address that should be the remit here.
 
snadge said:
Emplyment Law is at fault.
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This is spot on.

Which is why we need strong unions like we have not had for some time, and frankly we haven't got them. How to build them up in current conditions and make them far more political is something that needs alot of careful consideration.
 
exosculate said:
This is spot on.

Which is why we need strong unions like we have not had for some time, and frankly we haven't got them. How to build them up in current conditions and make them far more political is something that needs alot of careful consideration.
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Unions are not able to do anything.

They can't attack accepted lawful practices, these sort of practces have been entrenched into our lives, it is now up to the individual to attack them.

WE have to start again, to represent ourselves, the unions have become another job for people who are so inclined.

Fuck the unions, they don't represent anyone anymore apart from themselves.
 
snadge said:
Unions are not able to do anything.

They can't attack accepted lawful practices, these sort of practces have been entrenched into our lives, it is now up to the individual to attack them.

WE have to start again, to represent ourselves, the unions have become another job for people who are so inclined.

Fuck the unions, they don't represent anyone anymore apart from themselves.
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Politicised unions could improve the law, but they would need to be much better than they are now. I agree alot of them have self-serving bureaucracies though. This does not make them a bad idea, it just means they aren't in good shape at the moment. And to be honest they probably won't be any time soon.
 
snadge said:
Unions are not able to do anything.

They can't attack accepted lawful practices, these sort of practces have been entrenched into our lives, it is now up to the individual to attack them.

WE have to start again, to represent ourselves, the unions have become another job for people who are so inclined.

Fuck the unions, they don't represent anyone anymore apart from themselves.
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Absolutely.
 
SuburbanCasual said:
Why don't you just admit you hate whites?:rolleyes:
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Do I?

First I've heard of it.

Then again, I've been told I'm a "self-hating Jew" by fuckwits, so being told I'm a self-hating white by yet another fuckwit doesn't mean much in the scheme of things.
 
SuburbanCasual said:
I have physically attacked BNP supporters in the past, can't say I am one though:D
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Fair enough. Just wanted to get that out of the way.

Also.

You are a trade union rep who dislikes unions? I find that confusing.

eta Fair enough that your not a BNP person, I'm not saying fair enough attacking someone necessarily.
 
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