Immigrant workers are scab workers?

[poster342002]

not at all. I'm not denying that such treatment does happen, I am arguing that it is not 'the norm'. In very small workplaces, especially ones where the owner stands over you, then it is quite often true - but such workplaces provide a small percentage of jobs overall.

Rubbish. I've seen countless instances of this happening in large employers, too. They just draw it out a bit slower by going through the motions of an appeal proceedure - of which the conclusion to uphold dismissal is almost invariably made in advance.

 

[poster342002]

I have.

maybe in your line of work it doesn't happen because you are covered by employment law.

But it happens to everyone else.

TBH, this even happens in workplaces covered by employment law. Most employees simply cannot afford the hassle and expense of bringing a case to tribunal - nor can they risk losing the case and incurring costs.

 

[poster342002]

Utter crap.

Go on then - keep sticking your fingers in your ears whilst wearing blinkers and going "laa! laa! laa!". This shit will go on happening and being true whether you give it your stamp of recognition or not.

 

[belboid]

TBH, this even happens in workplaces covered by employment law. Most employees simply cannot afford the hassle and expense of bringing a case to tribunal - nor can they risk losing the case and incurring costs.

if i were you, i'd shut up and stop showing what an ignopramus you are. it is cvery clear from this thread you know nothing about the law and how it operates, so just go baclk to being the most miserable git on the planet, you're good at that.

please doi carry on with your 'were so much cleverer thqan stupid lefties' circle-jerk as well tho, must be the only pleasure you get.

Still waiting for a reply from baldwin or any of the other border guard lovers as to how they would set hteir lovely systems up. I expect to wait a long time.

 

[poster342002]

if i were you, i'd shut up ... Rant! Rant! Rant! Snarl! Snarl! Snarl! ... ad-infinitum

Same old same old.

For your info, I've seen people try to bring legitamate cases to tribunal and end up totally fucked.

 

[belboid]

of course, what TUist hasn't. There are all sorts of reasons why tribunals are lost, bloody stupid reasons most of the time, but that satill doesn't mean that in most industries for most workes they can be fired at whim. Realism means not exagerating how bad things are as well as not exagerating how good things are. Things aren't good, but they're not all doom doom doom, either.

 

[dennisr]

but they're not all doom doom doom, either.

they are in posters world judging by his endless "its all hopeless", "there's no chance of defeating them" approach - got to ask why do you bother commenting at all poster? if there's no point, like?

 

[poster342002]

they are in posters world judging by his endless "its all hopeless", "there's no chance of defeating them" approach - got to ask why do you bother commenting at all poster? if there's no point, like?

I'm merely starting from where we ARE rather than where we'd LIKE to be.

If we're going to stand the slightest chance of defeating capitalism, we have to wake up and smell the coffee.

 

[treelover]

Agreed, just look at Harman and the SWP, apparently they think we are on our way to a revolutionary period!* Theres a crisis a coming, but i don't think it will be the far left who benefit.


*'http://www.isj.org.uk/index.php4?id=292&issue=113

I'm merely starting from where we ARE rather than where we'd LIKE to be.

If we're going to stand the slightest chance of defeating capitalism, we have to wake up and smell the coffee.

 

[exosculate]

Does anybody who is a no borders advocate want to have a go at these questions?

How many people do you think it is acceptable to have as a population in the UK? What figure is sustainable? Should it be unlimited? Or if you have a cap how do you cope if it is inevitably exceeded?

 

[poster342002]

treelover,

The left in Britain is afflicted by the most fuckwitted, delusional and groundless optimism I've ever known.

Where they get it from I just don't know. I guess it comes from endless meetings where they all egg each other on and tell each other what they want to hear. In the workplace most of them seem to be engaged on 100% facility time TU work in the union room, so they don't see what's actually going on - except at poorly-attended members' meetings where, again, they largely hear opinions matching their own.

 

[exosculate]

treelover,

The left in Britain is afflicted by the most fuckwitted, delusional and groundless optimism I've ever known.

Where they get it from I just don't know. I guess it comes from endless meetings where they all egg each other on and tell each other what they want to hear. In the workplace most of them seem to be engaged on 100% facility time TU work in the union room, so they don't see what's actually going on - except at poorly-attended members' meetings where, again, they largely hear opinions matching their own.

I think that is depressingly accurate.

 

[belboid]

& you're living in your own fantasy worlds.

 

[poster342002]

& you're living in your own fantasy worlds.

Yes, everyone else is wrong and you're right.

 

[exosculate]

& you're living in your own fantasy worlds.

Answer post 280.

 

[belboid]

as soon as you answer ANY of the questions put to you you are avoiding. (especially the one about what immigration controls you want implemented)

poster - no, no more than you are.

 

[exosculate]

as soon as you answer ANY of the questions put to you you are avoiding. (especially the one about what immigration controls you want implemented)

poster - no, no more than you are.

Answer those questions.

Re-state yours, and I'll have a go.

 

[Blagsta]

Go on then - keep sticking your fingers in your ears whilst wearing blinkers and going "laa! laa! laa!". This shit will go on happening and being true whether you give it your stamp of recognition or not.

How can capital free itself from labour? It doesn't make any sense.

 

[poster342002]

How can capital free itself from labour? It doesn't make any sense.

I've gone over it ad-nauseum on posts passim on this very thread.

 

[tbaldwin]

Does anybody who is a no borders advocate want to have a go at these questions?

How many people do you think it is acceptable to have as a population in the UK? What figure is sustainable? Should it be unlimited? Or if you have a cap how do you cope if it is inevitably exceeded?

Excellent question.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Does anybody who is a no borders advocate want to have a go at these questions?

How many people do you think it is acceptable to have as a population in the UK? What figure is sustainable? Should it be unlimited? Or if you have a cap how do you cope if it is inevitably exceeded?

Q1) What's the criteria for "acceptability"?

Q2) Deppends on the answer to Q1 and on foreknowledge of availability and affordability of resources

Q3) "Open Borders" are a nice dream but aren't a viable proposition economically.

Q4) Depends on whether you're looking for a logical answer, a utilitarian answer or the most cost-effective answer.

 

[ViolentPanda]

How can capital free itself from labour? It doesn't make any sense.

It can't.

The most it can do is to reduce its' dependence by a finite degree.

If poster truly believes that capital can free itself from labour, then I fondly look forward to his next trick of showing us how to make pork sausages from sawdust and sticky-back plastic.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I've gone over it ad-nauseum on posts passim on this very thread.

Indeed you have, but in none of those many (oh so many) posts have you explained how Capital can free itself of labour, only how it can finitely reduce its' DEPENDENCE on labour.

I'm sorry to have to break it to you, but they're nowhere near the same thing.

 

[Blagsta]

I've gone over it ad-nauseum on posts passim on this very thread.

Have you? I've seen some stuff about casualisation which I agree with, but I haven't seen anything about how capitalism will operate without any workers.
Maybe I'm thick or something.

 

[Blagsta]

It can't.

The most it can do is to reduce its' dependence by a finite degree.

If poster truly believes that capital can free itself from labour, then I fondly look forward to his next trick of showing us how to make pork sausages from sawdust and sticky-back plastic.

Maybe he's been reading too much Neal Stephenson.

 

[poster342002]

Indeed you have, but in none of those many (oh so many) posts have you explained how Capital can free itself of labour, only how it can finitely reduce its' DEPENDENCE on labour.

I'm sorry to have to break it to you, but they're nowhere near the same thing.

It's reducing it's dependance on labour to the point whee it may as well have freed itself, though, isn't it? It's reducing dependancy to such a degree that it's not worth splitting hairs about.

 

[Blagsta]

It's reducing it's dependance on labour to the point whee it may as well have freed itself, though, isn't it? It's reducing dependancy to such a degree that it's not worth splitting hairs about.

Merely re-asserting it does not make it true.

Are you having some fantasy about robots running the world or something?

 

[dennisr]

I'm merely starting from where we ARE rather than where we'd LIKE to be.

If we're going to stand the slightest chance of defeating capitalism, we have to wake up and smell the coffee.

I wish that was true of your posts - I agree with stating matters as they are being a good starting point if we are able to change them - the impression I get from you posts is that you do not see what IS POSSIBLE as well as what IS. Thats not to have any illusions in how things are at present - you don't seem to see any possibility for improvement - it alway "its all hopeless ... they'll be defeated ... they've got no chance" - its only a short step from this to "well, its human nature innit?".

The fact is - even in our short lifetimes things have changed immeasurably - not always for the better but not always for the worse - change is the only inevitability I can see, so the question is do you act or simply re-act?

 

[dennisr]

Merely re-asserting it does not make it true.

Are you having some fantasy about robots running the world or something?

Got to agree with Blagsta - a) production has mainly moved, it hasn't been abolished - someone else, somewhere else is now doing the dirty work and b) they have to sell those products, if they don't whats the point of producing them? - that means people have to sell their labour ro be able to buy those products. Thats how this system works (or dosen't work..)

 

[poster342002]

I wish that was true of your posts - I agree with stating matters as they are being a good starting point if we are able to change them - the impression I get from you posts is that you do not see what IS POSSIBLE as well as what IS. Thats not to have any illusions in how things are at present - you don't seem to see any possibility for improvement - it alway "its all hopeless ... they'll be defeated ... they've got no chance" - its only a short step from this to "well, its human nature innit?".

The fact is - even in our short lifetimes things have changed immeasurably - not always for the better but not always for the worse - change is the only inevitability I can see, so the question is do you act or simply re-act?

In my lifetime, I've only seen setback after setback - so it's unsurprising that I'm a little short on optimism.

My attitudes stem from my experiences. That's dialectics for you.