Immigrant workers are scab workers?

[durruti02]

Woof

but you would deny the right of workers here to organise against cheap labour?? makes no sense mate

 

[ViolentPanda]

er what does this mean then ???

Jessiedog " If you think that denying Philippine workers their right to work overseas to earn a crust to feed their families will end imperialism, you are more misguided than I thought. It won't. It will end in a meltdown of the Philippines that would take decades, or even longer, for the country to recover from. Hundreds of thousands would starve.
Frankly I don't think that would be good for Philippine workers rights and I will fight you tooth and nail to prevent such an atrocity.
So, better get out of the way - there's multiple-dozen, double-decker bus loads of nurses, cleaners, gardeners and drivers heading your way."

and again

" The entire economy of the Philippines depends upon remittances from the more than 10% of the population (predominately married mothers,) that work overseas. We are talking some 10 million peeps here - 30% plus of the adult female population. If these remittances were to cease, the country would collapse overnight and mass starvation would ensue."

that is quite clear VP

In your head, maybe.

You see, I don't see trickle-down even mentioned in passing in either of those quotes from Jessiedog.

I see mention of remittances and their current importance to Philippinos and the Philippine economy, but trickle-down? Not a bit.

YOU mentioned trickle-down, and you mentioned it because you interpreted Jessiedog's posts to be saying something about trickle-down.

Strange how no-one else did.

Strange how others seem to have got the point about remittances but not drawn any conclusions that Jessiedog is talking about "trickle-down".

Or perhaps it isn't strange. Perhaps your assumptions are incorrect?

 

[Jessiedog]

S'quite funny really.

I used to get all het up on the "Nepal" threads over in WP&CA until FAUD/RdDR posted in General that his GCSE's hadn't come out as well as hoped.

Now this kind of (very valid, worthwhile and wholly necessary) youthful idealism doesn't phase me quite so much.

peeps.

Blessings all.



Woof

 

[Jessiedog]

but you would deny the right of workers here to organise against cheap labour?? makes no sense mate

Y'know, durruti?

What you write makes no sense to me.

In my world, it's the bosses that "organise against (cheap) labour". It's not supposed to be fucking workers against workers - that's what the bosses want, for fuck sake. And they seem to have you right on-side in their little game, don't they?



Wake up!

In practical terms, your "anti-immigration" stance boils down to being nothing but "anti-worker", pure and simple.

Just as long as you and your mates can earn an extra two-quid-fifty an hour, you don't give a fourpenny fuck if tens of millions of "foreigners" are plunged into deprivation and hunger as a result. And many of these "foreigners" are already trying to scrape by on less than US$2:00 per day, you stupid twat.

Pathetic!



Internationalist my arse.



Woof

 

[becky p]

I cant really work out where jessie dog is coming from on here. The Phillipines apparently gets 10% of its GDP from remittances sent from workers who have emigrated.But it loses nearly all its skilled workers. Are you seriously trying to say that people in phillipines benefit from this?

 

[ViolentPanda]

I cant really work out where jessie dog is coming from on here. The Phillipines apparently gets 10% of its GDP from remittances sent from workers who have emigrated.But it loses nearly all its skilled workers. Are you seriously trying to say that people in phillipines benefit from this?

Nearly all? Where'd you get that from (please don't say from one of durruti's posts )?

 

[Jessiedog]

I cant really work out where jessie dog is coming from on here. The Phillipines apparently gets 10% of its GDP from remittances sent from workers who have emigrated.But it loses nearly all its skilled workers. Are you seriously trying to say that people in phillipines benefit from this?

By my calculations, total overseas-worker remittances to the Philippines probably account for closer to 20% of GDP and prolly 30%+ of GNP.

Did you read my post about why there are so many nurses and physiotherapists leaving the Philippines ('cos it's them we're talkng about, no other "skilled worker" occupations really - 'cept for a few engineers and doctors, but they've always been internationally mobile, you should see how many "western" engineers have been "lost" to Asia - the vast, VAST, VAST majority of Philippine overseas workers are actually working as domestic servants - though overqualified by a mile for that work are most of them)?

In case you missed that one, I'll reiterate......

It's an "export industry", people study nursing/physio for the sole purpose of emigration (and the govt. subsidises the training in order to garner the foreign exchange remittances).

There are many doctors in the Philippines who have given up doctoring and are entering full time nursing school - it's much easier to get overseas thru' nursing.

I know two young women aged 15/16 who have just completed the equivalent of their "O' levels in the Philippines. They were educated at probably the best (local) private school in Manila - courtesy of their mother who works fucking hard as an overseas domestic helper to finance not just this, but the whole extended families (and assorted friends and hangers on - Oh! And they employ a domestic helper, too) wellbeing.

They both got A+ results in about ten subjects, are gifted in art, music and other extra-curricular activities. You'd think they'd be off to the top colleges in the country to study anything they wanted - they could. But they're not. They're trying to get into nursing school. It's a no-brainer for them, their families, their community and their society.



I think this is very sad, but understandable. *

The Philippines is currently churning out @ 50,000 freshly trained nurses a year (although last year, 2006, some 4,000 of those were found to have somehow "aquired" the examination results in advance of the finals - Oops! Peeps can be very creative where long-term and substantial financial benefits are involved). A very substantial minority (at the least) of these nurses never make it overseas and of those that do, most invariably return after a decade or so. The net result is an increase in trained nurses in the Philippines.

All in all, the opportunity that Philippine workers have to work overseas is the best thing that ever happened to the Philippines. It's a sad indictment of the quality of the leaders and politicians in this most corrupt of countries.

But it's true.





(* In the case of these two talented, young individuals, I'm doing what I can to encourage them to (and to convince their families that it's a good idea,) and support them in applying for scholarships to overseas educational institutions where they can study what they actually want to and are good at, at schools where their efforts will be recognised by an internationally accepted qualification. In the case of other individuals, I offer other, different, appropriate support.)




It's an extremely difficult and complex situation, becky, there are no "easy" answers (unless durruti has an imminent global revolution up his sleeve, of course), but unless and until someone comes up with a solution that will work better than the current one and won't simply add the bundle of straws that sees the camel crumple, I'm sticking with the everyday, practical, small contribution that I can make that effects a positive difference in peoples lives today.

'Cos tomorrow is too late!


Woof

 

[becky p]

Your calculations seem to be based on wishful thinking Jessie. One can only guess why you would wish to defend a situation that means the phillipines exports more people than any other nations except India and China?
Remittances from the 7 million workers working overseas in no way compensate the people of the phillipines for what they lose.
There maybe a few people doing well out of mass migration in the phillipines but they are very much in a minority. Other people see their families and way of life broken up.
The more i have seen of your arguements the less convincing they are.

 

[becky p]

- the vast, VAST, VAST majority of Philippine overseas workers are actually working as domestic servants - though overqualified by a mile for that work are most of them)?



It's an "export industry", people study nursing/physio for the sole purpose of emigration (and the govt. subsidises the training in order to garner the foreign exchange remittances).

There are many doctors in the Philippines who have given up doctoring and are entering full time nursing school - it's much easier to get overseas thru' nursing.

I know two young women aged 15/16 who have just completed the equivalent of their "O' levels in the Philippines. They were educated at probably the best (local) private school in Manila - courtesy of their mother who works fucking hard as an overseas domestic helper to finance not just this, but the whole extended families (and assorted friends and hangers on - Oh! And they employ a domestic helper, too) wellbeing.

They both got A+ results in about ten subjects, are gifted in art, music and other extra-curricular activities. You'd think they'd be off to the top colleges in the country to study anything they wanted - they could. But they're not. They're trying to get into nursing school. It's a no-brainer for them, their families, their community and their society.



I think this is very sad, but understandable. *

The Philippines is currently churning out @ 50,000 freshly trained nurses a year (although last year, 2006, some 4,000 of those were found to have somehow "aquired" the examination results in advance of the finals - Oops! Peeps can be very creative where long-term and substantial financial benefits are involved). A very substantial minority (at the least) of these nurses never make it overseas and of those that do, most invariably return after a decade or so. The net result is an increase in trained nurses in the Philippines.

All in all, the opportunity that Philippine workers have to work overseas is the best thing that ever happened to the Philippines.

Your claim that there is now an increase in trained nurses in the phillipines is interesting Jessie. So why is there now a shortage of nurses in phillipines hospitals?
Immigration is only ever going to be any kind of solution for a minority of people. I can't quite understand your enthusiasm for it?

 

[becky p]

In practical terms, your "anti-immigration" stance boils down to being nothing but "anti-worker", pure and simple.

Just as long as you and your mates can earn an extra two-quid-fifty an hour, you don't give a fourpenny fuck if tens of millions of "foreigners" are plunged into deprivation and hunger as a result. And many of these "foreigners" are already trying to scrape by on less than US$2:00 per day, you stupid twat.

You seem to delight in misrepresenting what durriti has been saying. it really does your arguement no favours. Do you really think durruti is trying to defend low wages in the phillipines and other developing countries?
I mean is that really what you think?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Your calculations seem to be based on wishful thinking Jessie. One can only guess why you would wish to defend a situation that means the phillipines exports more people than any other nations except India and China?
Remittances from the 7 million workers working overseas in no way compensate the people of the phillipines for what they lose.
There maybe a few people doing well out of mass migration in the phillipines but they are very much in a minority. Other people see their families and way of life broken up.
The more i have seen of your arguements the less convincing they are.

Again, would you care to quantify your arguments, or are we supposed to take what you say as gospel?

 

[Jessiedog]

Your claim that there is now an increase in trained nurses in the phillipines is interesting Jessie. So why is there now a shortage of nurses in phillipines hospitals?

Ummmmmmm.

There's a global shortage of nurses. Didn't you know?



"The Philippines", as a community, is moving swiftly to respond to this opportunity. Relatively good English language skills help to give "the country" a head start too.

How many fresh nurses does the UK turn out each year?

The Philippine people benefit both directly from the remittances as well as from the services of those nurses that do not emigrate and those that return.

The idea that peeps that have spent good time, money and effort studying and training should be physically prevented from deploying the hard won skills they've aquired in the most effective way they can, is, to me, abhorrent.

It's not like they're out muGging and raping and murdering, FFS!

And the idea that it is fellow workers seeking to do this is, to me, baffling.



It wasn't like that in my day.

Immigration is only ever going to be any kind of solution for a minority of people. I can't quite understand your enthusiasm for it?

Have you read the thread?

Money sent home is usually money widely shared.

I can understand everyones enthusiasm for a fairer, kinder, more equitable society and system - nobody in their right mind wants otherwise. But I've been around and about long and far enough now, to know that what's important is to do something NOW while also working for change.

Tomorrow is too late - the revolution has not transpired to date and people are going hungry.

Those that stand on the sidelines and shrilly tout their most recently adopted ideologies are, I think, as I've mentioned, laudable. But I'm fucked if I'm going to stand by and let any kind of tout try and scam too many peeps - just 'cos they can, 'cos said peeps are simply keen to see what's actually happening.

It's too important for that.



Woof

 

[Jessiedog]

You seem to delight in misrepresenting what durriti has been saying. it really does your arguement no favours. Do you really think durruti is trying to defend low wages in the phillipines and other developing countries?
I mean is that really what you think?

Huh?



I have merely been pointing out what I would have thought any reasonably well informed "internationalist" would already understand: that the dire consequences of implementing such bizarre and dangerous policies that would issue as a natural extension of durruti's thinking, would render such policies, and hence thinking, as inconceivable, to say the least.

There are actually real poor people on this planet, you know?

Somehow I doubt that you've actually spent that much time with those living in real poverty.



Woof

 

[durruti02]

there is a shortage of nurses in the uk because of low pay, lack of investment in training AND specifically because the bosses can get the job done without increasing taxes to middle engerland,by importing nurses from poor countries

for the w/c NOT to oppose this makes no sense and how this all makes sense to jessie and vp only they will know ..

the processes which benefit the phillipines thru remitances cause far more harm than the good they create , as bb says

 

[Jessiedog]

the processes which benefit the phillipines thru remitances cause far more harm than the good they create , as bb says

Don't be fucking stupid!



Woof