ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
copliker said:
Ooh-er!
Immigrant workers are scab workers?
- Thread starter SuburbanCasual
- Start date
Ooh-er!
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Yossarian said:
If he's being consistent he should think that.
Mind you, consistency and balders do tend to be strangers to one another.
exosculate
a stagger with a beat
I agree that the practice of sending money home must be beneficial to the home economy.
What strikes me though is that it is likely to elevate their relatives wealth level far above those not as fortunate as to be being sent money parcels. Surely its just creating a hierarchical wealth structure.
I suppose people would then argue trickle down in regard to this, but then one is back at the neo-liberal fuckwittery again.
What strikes me though is that it is likely to elevate their relatives wealth level far above those not as fortunate as to be being sent money parcels. Surely its just creating a hierarchical wealth structure.
I suppose people would then argue trickle down in regard to this, but then one is back at the neo-liberal fuckwittery again.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
exosculate said:
I think it depends on how community-minded the families receiving money are. I know from personal experience that sometimes remittance money benefits the wider community, not just the immediate family.
Yossarian
⏭️
It varies, I guess - some places where foreign currency goes a long way must see a growth in inequality, but a lot of migrant workers are working abroad to get the money to buy their own home or farmland where they'd have been renting before and I don’t see that as such a bad thing at all. Having some families lifted out of poverty and the rest maybe becoming slightly better off has got to be better than everybody having fuck-all, anyway.
Jessiedog said:durruti,
Let's assume that all the Philippine's overseas workers are repatriated. The country would implode. There would be mass starvation - hundreds of thousands dead. Things would be FAR WORSE than they are now.
Your "theories" are nonsense. You live in a fairytale world. And you obviously no nothing of the Philippines. You twitter on about "nurses" leaving the Philippines, but I've explained to you that people only go into nursing to get out of the country. No "ticket out" and nobody would study nursing - they'd study the next easiest way out.
Either way, it's not like the Philippines is LOSING nurses. The NET effect of this "ticket out" is that not every nurse gets out and those that stay - together with those that return - increase the pool of available nurses. If there were no "ticket out" through nursing, there would be FEWER nurses 'cos everyone would study the next easiest "ticket out".
Geddit?
And anyway, as I've mentioned, to focus on this one area to the exclusion of the larger, extremely complex situation, is spurious.
Overall, migration has a positive effect on the Philippines - it needs the income. It's a far from perfect situation with virtually a whole generation of children being raised without their mothers presence being not the least of the issues.
But (in the dog-eat-dog, capitalistic, REAL world in which we all have to live, of course,) the alternative that you are suggesting is unthinkable.
You know nothing I'm afraid.
Woof
jessie it is you who is not reading my posts .. i entirely understand and sympathise with the position of the phillipines and agree that remittances are usefull BUT that they are no use overall ..
and the overall in equality persists .. you do not seem to accept this why?
you see no alternative which is a sad but not unusual .. and i do not entirely blame you
Jessiedog said:Methinks you have trouble reading my posts durruti. I said I live in the worlds freest economy (according to Heritage,) hence my comments about having to live with "capitalism" - we don't have a choice. It's actually written down in our (mini) constitution, the Basic Law. It states that we shall remain a capitalist, free-market economy until the year 2047.
Hence my lament.
Geddit?
And I don't "support" the concept of trickle down at all.
But if any shit happens to trickle down my way, I sure ain't gonna kick it into the gutter - and neither is anyone else I know.
Would you?
Yes I'm cynical - I guess it comes with seeing the sun rise a few times.
But I'm also at least as "revolutionary" as you are, probably more so. You'd no doubt be surprised at what kind of "subversive activities" I get involved in.
Woof
but you offer NO alternative to trickle down .. and "subversive activities" sounds like rubbish to me when you do not talk about alternatives
p.s. the heritage boys say the phillipines is only 97th freest economy in world
p.s. i guess you know the phillipines past under imperialism? this is why it is how it is and why exporting labour is its fate .. we need to stop that imperialism at its heart
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Yossarian said:
It's certainly the case that when we send money to my relatives in Burma (from my grandad's first marriage) they've generally used it for stuff (wells, hard standing, a community hall) that's benefitted their community as well as the family itself.
No. They are not "useful", they are critical.durruti02 said:
The entire economy of the Philippines depends upon remittances from the more than 10% of the population (predominately married mothers,) that work overseas. We are talking some 10 million peeps here - 30% plus of the adult female population. If these remittances were to cease, the country would collapse overnight and mass starvation would ensue.
So when you write "they are no use overall", it is either complete bollocks, or it is as the result of some high-falutin' "theory" that you have about how things ought to work - and that in itself is complete bollocks.
Out here in the real world, of course, your ideologies count for shit.
There are hungry mouths to feed - end off!
Inequality has always existed - I accept that.
There IS no realistic alternative to remittances in keeping the Philippine economy afloat.
If, however, YOU can suddenly magic-up a better system that will permit sufficient decent jobs to be provided in their home country, I'm sure that these workers would FAR prefer to live at home, looking after their kids and having a normal family life.
But if you can't, then you'd better get out of the way - there are more and more a'coming your direction and your twitterings are of absolutely zero relevence to them. Zero!
Woof
As an alternative to "trickle-down", I suggest a revolution.durruti02 said:
Would you care to get the ball rolling?
And by the way, my "subversive activities" are certainly not considered "rubbish" by the government they are directed towards.
I'm sure they do. So what?
I've constantly been refering to what "the boys" say is the "freest".
Good grief!
If you think that denying Philippine workers their right to work overseas to earn a crust to feed their families will end imperialism, you are more misguided than I thought. It won't. It will end in a meltdown of the Philippines that would take decades, or even longer, for the country to recover from. Hundreds of thousands would starve.
Frankly I don't think that would be good for Philippine workers rights and I will fight you tooth and nail to prevent such an atrocity.
So, better get out of the way - there's multiple-dozen, double-decker bus loads of nurses, cleaners, gardeners and drivers heading your way.
Woof
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
durruti02 said:
Trickle-down doesn't work and it is employed by neo-liberal economists to justify widening gaps between the rich and poor. It is also used to placate critics of such policies. Similar to this is so-called "Voodoo Economics" as promoted by GHW Bush in the 80's. It doesn't work either. File with all the other lies like the American Dream.
Jessiedog said:No. They are not "useful", they are critical.
The entire economy of the Philippines depends upon remittances from the more than 10% of the population (predominately married mothers,) that work overseas. We are talking some 10 million peeps here - 30% plus of the adult female population. If these remittances were to cease, the country would collapse overnight and mass starvation would ensue.
So when you write "they are no use overall", it is either complete bollocks, or it is as the result of some high-falutin' "theory" that you have about how things ought to work - and that in itself is complete bollocks.
Out here in the real world, of course, your ideologies count for shit.
There are hungry mouths to feed - end off!
Inequality has always existed - I accept that.
There IS no realistic alternative to remittances in keeping the Philippine economy afloat.
If, however, YOU can suddenly magic-up a better system that will permit sufficient decent jobs to be provided in their home country, I'm sure that these workers would FAR prefer to live at home, looking after their kids and having a normal family life.
But if you can't, then you'd better get out of the way - there are more and more a'coming your direction and your twitterings are of absolutely zero relevence to them. Zero!
Woof
jessie i do not disagree with you except to say that the majority of asians etc will therefore stay in poverty while this gossly unequal sytem contiunues .. your attitude is therefore NOT anti capitalist .. you accept, maybe relucantly, the status quo .. and you believe it unchangeable .. fair play .. you live your life .. i still am active to change things
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
durruti02 said:
Beg pardon?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
durruti02 said:wantd jessie to answer your post!... s/he thinks trickle down only option for far east ..
No Jessiedog doesn't believe that.
Just because you've said "so you think trickle down is the only option, then?" doesn't mean that's what Jessiedog believes.
Try re-reading Jessiedog's replies to you. You won't be able to find anything where Jessiedog states "trickle down is the only option for the far east".
You may well have convinced yourself (fuck knows you've claimed it several times on this thread) that Jessiedog said that, but he hasn't.
Result: You look like a tit.
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
Newsflash Just In - durruti saves the world from man.
BWAHAHAHA! Fucking classic.
durruti02 said:simply no .. but i do not want to go thru those pearly gates without thinking i did NOT the most i could have done to stop the current global ecological meltdown and the abuse of man by man .. you?
BWAHAHAHA!
Fucking classic.durruti,durruti02 said:
I agree that the capitalist system is unfair. That said, events in China over the last 25 years (400 million + peeps lifted out of abject poverty, an additional 300 million enriched into the "middle class" [own their homes, car, TV, DVD, washing machine, PC, internet access, mobile phone, etc. etc.], another 500 million still below the breadline - but with things improving - and just a quarter of a century ago, virtually everyone was starving,) would suggest that there are certainly worse systems available to try out. Virtually nobody in China today wants to even think about going back to the dark days of the 1970's or prior to this.
I accept the status quo as reality. I do not agree with it, I do not like it, but I do not think it's unchangeable.
What I think is absolutely ludicrous is for you to espouse ideas that will lead to the decimation of millions of the poorest of peeps (in the Philippines,) merely to adhere to some vague ideology that you believe will have some miraculous effect globally.
It won't. It will be a fucking disaster.
I have told you that I am "active" and frankly, I'm "active" at the "sharp end". I do my bit (and more than most,) and what I do exposes me to real danger and potentially disasterous consequences. The people I'm fucking with are "big boys", trust me. In addition to my "normal" activities, I'm also "active" in supporting the poor in the Philippines (and many overseas workers).
I consider that what I do makes a real dfifference in peoples lives - I know it does. And the main thrust of my political activism (not alone, of course, but with together with many other passionate, courageous people,) is having a real impact, if only slowly and incrementally, in shaping our world for the better - I know it is.
What you are advocating will be massively detrimental to people that I care passionately about.
Fortunately, your rather twisted ideas are largely irrelevant in the real world.
Now! If you have an idea on how to wave your wand........
As I previously mentioned........
Jessiediog said:
And further...
Jessiedog said:
If the revolution is coming, then I'm right beside you - pitchfork at the ready.
But in the meantime, I'm certainly not going to stand by and let some misguided dickwad fuck up the lives of millions of people already living in relatively desparate conditions.
That would be counterproductive.
Woof
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
And what about the many Chinese who have actually been severely impoverished by those same "reforms"?Jessiedog said:
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
durruti02 said:wantd jessie to answer your post!
I don't know how you could have possibly read that...unless you deliberately read jessie's post that way for a reason.
ViolentPanda said:
er what does this mean then ???
Jessiedog " If you think that denying Philippine workers their right to work overseas to earn a crust to feed their families will end imperialism, you are more misguided than I thought. It won't. It will end in a meltdown of the Philippines that would take decades, or even longer, for the country to recover from. Hundreds of thousands would starve.
Frankly I don't think that would be good for Philippine workers rights and I will fight you tooth and nail to prevent such an atrocity.
So, better get out of the way - there's multiple-dozen, double-decker bus loads of nurses, cleaners, gardeners and drivers heading your way."
and again
" The entire economy of the Philippines depends upon remittances from the more than 10% of the population (predominately married mothers,) that work overseas. We are talking some 10 million peeps here - 30% plus of the adult female population. If these remittances were to cease, the country would collapse overnight and mass starvation would ensue."
that is quite clear VP
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