Hundreds of workers protest against Italians/Foreigners 'taking jobs'...

[dennisr]

Lets remind you of what you said Jim:
Socialist Unity Website - 30 Jan around 10 am (beginning of the second day of the strike):

Jim Page says:
"I think the first action is to expel any shop stewards involved here forthwith, and for the union leaders to condemn this strike

Secondly, its solidarity action with the foreign workers, making it clear they are welcome here

Thirdly, confronting the racists on the picket line, just as we would a BNP mobilisation"

Now I know there's more than one Jim Page - but this one is clearly you.

There were plenty of other idiots in that site - but you took the biscuit

 

[dennisr]

Reading through the later comments we get this on the same thread:

"To add - in fact the comment by “Jim Page” was made by the BNP’s Lee Barnes. If you’ve got the IP address of the idiot please mail it to me."

So was it you or not - the recent post here says it could well be. I hope its not and that this fella is right???

 

[durruti02]

An analysis if the issues behind the dispute (in english) from rifondazione

THE IREM-EAST LINDSEY CASE. UNITED AGAINST FREE MOVEMENT OF SERVICE

http://home.rifondazione.it/xisttest/content/view/4730/310/

spot on ..

 

[durruti02]

its a concrete step forward for a group of concious unionised workers in what is a concrete situation - not some abstract demand for the entire working class mate.

For that majority - those on the outside - all they can gain is the lesson learnt (+plus they can join the union if they are workers in that trade of course) - something like: "if we are to defend OUR jobs in this climate against our bosses who are doing the exact same thing as those bosses - then that Lindsey lots approach is the way to do it - its puts a stop to the bosses plans to undercut wages and conditions using cheap labour - puts us back in some control over our working conditions - if we fight for it that is"

trade union officials are elected, so can be held accountable, bosses arn't

spot on ..

 

[durruti02]

Noticed the reactionaries who went on strike yesterday at Staythorpe power station, based on racist lies about foreigners taking "their" jobs or undercut "their" wages (both proven lies, and you know it) were still carrying their Union Jacks, all "ironically" of course

When exactly will fools keep on defending these people? You are making the left look a laughing stock, as well as putting the cause of Socialist Unity back ears. Do you really think people will have anything to do with those who support these strikes in the forseeable future

just out of interest but what country do you live in jim? as i see it these workers live in britain and whenever you get any outpouring/demo/event in this country people get out flags .. so either jacks or georges ( i don't like it but then again i'll be dressed in red and green on saturday!) .. it is the same in pretty well all countries where socialism/anarchism has disapperred .. you deny people nationalism they will become fascists .. give people an alternative and nationalism will disappear up its own arse .. and it does NOT make them bad people .. it does not mean their dispute is wrong .. read the rifondazione article if you don't trust dennisr/sp or me and my @workerism and see what they say .. these strikes are against neoliberalism and your left's criticisms embaress us all

 

[butchersapron]

Noticed the reactionaries who went on strike yesterday at Staythorpe power station, based on racist lies about foreigners taking "their" jobs or undercut "their" wages (both proven lies, and you know it) were still carrying their Union Jacks, all "ironically" of course

When exactly will fools keep on defending these people? You are making the left look a laughing stock, as well as putting the cause of Socialist Unity back ears. Do you really think people will have anything to do with those who support these strikes in the forseeable future

Sorry to see you like this jim. Get well soon.

 

[dennisr]

if you don't trust dennisr/sp or me and my @workerism and see what they say .. these strikes are against neoliberalism and your left's criticisms embaress us all

more than that jim - in your case.

if you are the anti-fascist you claim to be you had better go through other channels providing some proof - trusted people who know your real identity or similar who can vouch for you - so other anti-fascists can get some inkling if you are for real or not. as an anti-fascist, jim you understand the need for security like.

We really do need some clarification on this, jim. The thread is here:
http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=3494

(ps this is the first of many threads on the subject - I'd recommend folk read others for better clarification of the developing dispute at the time if thier intention is to read through the endless arguements that result)

 

[dennisr]

The underlying legal issues - the Institute for Employment Rights sheds some light on them
http://www.ier.org.uk/system/files/Decisions+of+the+ECJ+and+implications+for+UK+laws_0.pdf

http://www.ier.org.uk/

 

[ymu]

Got around to responding to the BBC complaints people.

Dear Helen

Thanks for this, but it's not really good enough is it?

How can you justify selectively quoting an interviewee in order to give weight to the Government's view of the strike? It is bad enough that you could take the words of a man who is expressing the strikers' of the dispute - a protest at the exclusion of locally-based workers and the undermining of local agreements on pay and conditions - and distort them so that he appears to say something quite different. It is beyond belief that you would then attempt to justify this on the grounds that it lent support to the Government's view of events. The BBC is not a propaganda unit and in this case the standard of journalism displayed fell far far short of acceptable.

When will you be airing an apology to this man?

Yours sincerely

ymu

 

[danny la rouge]

The BBC is not a propaganda unit and in this case the standard of journalism displayed fell far far short of acceptable.

Well played ymu, because although we know fine that the BBC is a propaganda unit, that's not how the operatives see themselves.

 

[dennisr]

Ok, you have to read between the lines here (it is the telegraph after all with a somewhat different agenda to that of the working class...). But just goes to show how far ahead the trade union rank and fie were over their so-called leaders:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-for-Italian-workers-in-British-jobs-row.html

Union agreed working conditions for Italian workers in ‘British jobs’ row, 7th February

 

[JimPage]

just out of interest but what country do you live in jim? as i see it these workers live in britain and whenever you get any outpouring/demo/event in this country people get out flags .. so either jacks or georges ( i don't like it but then again i'll be dressed in red and green on saturday!) .. it is the same in pretty well all countries where socialism/anarchism has disapperred .. you deny people nationalism they will become fascists .. give people an alternative and nationalism will disappear up its own arse .. and it does NOT make them bad people .. it does not mean their dispute is wrong .. read the rifondazione article if you don't trust dennisr/sp or me and my @workerism and see what they say .. these strikes are against neoliberalism and your left's criticisms embaress us all

Scotland- which may have something to do with my revulsion of the Union Jack, those who crry it or defend it, and all it stands for. It is clear what the Union Jack stands for in this context- and to carry it on a picket line is a nationalist act.

It is the left coming itelf that there was anything progressive here that riles me. There simply wasnt, whatever the SP say. This strike was as progressive as the Ulster Workers Strike was

The end result of this strike- pictures on TV of migrants workers flying home to portugal , too scared to remain in britian because of this strike

 

[JimPage]

Lets remind you of what you said Jim:
Socialist Unity Website - 30 Jan around 10 am (beginning of the second day of the strike):

Jim Page says:
"I think the first action is to expel any shop stewards involved here forthwith, and for the union leaders to condemn this strike

Secondly, its solidarity action with the foreign workers, making it clear they are welcome here

Thirdly, confronting the racists on the picket line, just as we would a BNP mobilisation"

Now I know there's more than one Jim Page - but this one is clearly you.

There were plenty of other idiots in that site - but you took the biscuit

Third was the heat of the moment, which I regret saying. I stand by one and two

Hve you realised yet that your position is very much a small minority position on the left yet? Most of the sensible left organsisations- WP/AWL/SWP were against the reasons behind this strike, with the SP and CPB being minorities here

 

[articul8]

the sensible left organsisations- WP/AWL/SWP

 

[penderyn2000]

Apologies if anyone has already posted a link to this (don't have time to read 67 pages of posts), but Prof Gregor Gall's comprehensive report of the strike is up at http://radicalsocialist.org/forum.

 

[belboid]

Most of the sensible left organsisations- WP/AWL/SWP

oh what a hypocrite.

The AWL rapidly changed their position, of course, once they'd read something other than the media bullshit. WP took a bit longer to change their position, but did so too.

 

[butchersapron]

It's what the left says that's important not what the w/c is doing.

 

[dennisr]

It's what the left says that's important not what the w/c is doing.

exactly

i note - no replies on the substance of what has been posted throughout this thread. 'doomed to repeat history' for all your fained anti-fascist interest, jim.

"heat of the moment" isn't good enough

so you admit it was you, jim - what a fucking idiot you turned out to be. tailing the idiocy of the UAF approach uncritically wasn't good enough - now you have to attack workers in struggle. Ulster strike my arse.

 

[treelover]

Most of the sensible left organsisations- WP/AWL/SWP were against the reasons behind this strike, with the SP and CPB being minorities her

The SWP, 'sensible left', are you delusional?

 

[ymu]

Quick response to my follow-up e-mail.

Thank you for your email. I don't think there is anything I can usefully add to what I have already said, nor do I think it would be proportionate to broadcast an apology. However, if you wish to pursue your complaint it is open to you do so by contacting the Editorial Complaints Unit, which investigates complaints independently of programme-makers. The address is: Editorial Complaints Unit, Room 5168, White City Building, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TQ. If you'd like more information about the BBC's complaints handling process, you may like to visit our website, www.bbc.co.uk/complaints.

Yours sincerely
Helen Boaden
Director, BBC News

 

[frogwoman]

AWL aren't even left, lol.

 

[JimPage]

exactly

i note - no replies on the substance of what has been posted throughout this thread. 'doomed to repeat history' for all your fained anti-fascist interest, jim.

"heat of the moment" isn't good enough

so you admit it was you, jim - what a fucking idiot you turned out to be. tailing the idiocy of the UAF approach uncritically wasn't good enough - now you have to attack workers in struggle. Ulster strike my arse.

Your posts on the whole dont make sense, try to make your ideas more coherent before annoying me in the future, and i might be arsed to reply to them

Well heat of the moment it was- not that I need to justify myself to you in any event. Who do you think you are?.

As to failing to reply to posts of substance- as and when i see something worth replying to, i will. As it stands, you have failed to respond to a single point I have made in a coherent manner

 

[JimPage]

oh what a hypocrite.

The AWL rapidly changed their position, of course, once they'd read something other than the media bullshit. WP took a bit longer to change their position, but did so too.

Like it or not, these groups represent the great majority of the membership of the left at present- as well as the wider Labour and Trades uniosn momvement which rejected the strike and the message

The support for the strike was from a minority on the left. I am far from alone in questioning the reasons behind this strike

 

[BarryB]

Like it or not, these groups represent the great majority of the membership of the left at present- as well as the wider Labour and Trades uniosn momvement which rejected the strike and the message

The support for the strike was from a minority on the left. I am far from alone in questioning the reasons behind this strike

What prove have you that the wider Labour and Trade Union movement rejected the strike?

BarryB

 

[articul8]

The combined AWL and WP membership being....? (1000 max?) SWPs haemorrhaging year by year...

And you're lining up Mandelson et al on your side (suspect as with BarryB you're not speaking on behalf of anything like a majority of ordinary Labour members, let alone voters )

Moribund politics. Corpse in the mouth.

 

[butchersapron]

1000? Are you mental? Nearer to 200 i think.

 

[articul8]

LOL maybe I did get far too generous

Combined will be more than 200 though (only 20-30 from WP granted, but AWL are doing particular shit at recruiting from No Sweat and other fronts if they can't muster 300-400)

 

[belboid]

200 combined??!! 150 more like, 170 tops.. AWL aren't doing that well out of No Sweat. 100-120 awl, 40-50 WP.

Jim's 'great majority of the membership of the left' just means SWP really, all the other groups combined probly only just equal them. So his comment really meaningless, as well as pointless.

And the (more important) statement that 'the wider Labour and Trades uniosn momvement' also rejected the strike is completely and utterly untrue.

 

[nightbreed]

Most of the sensible left organsisations- WP/AWL/SWP were against the reasons behind this strike, with the SP and CPB being minorities here

:

I laughed so much I fell of the toilet!!

 

[durruti02]

http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/t...he-firms-bidding-for-the-work-84229-22893820/

"He walked out because he says foreign companies being awarded contracts in the UK are employing foreign workers because they are cheaper to employ than British workers.

He said when a foreign company employs a foreign worker they are not abiding by the pay and conditions agreed by UK unions which makes British workers more expensive to employ.

And he said if foreign companies were forced to abide by the rules, there would be no need for them to employ foreign workers."