strummerville
vinyl lover
All you need now is a decent football team
With a name like Nigel - can only be Palace.
All you need now is a decent football team
With a name like Nigel - can only be Palace.
Calling for one group of workers to be privileged, to be given preferential treatment in hiring, does not promote unity, does it?
I'm going to avoid the word xenophobic, I don't think that's really anything to do with the discussion. What I'm concerned about is the words unity and division. Do the slogans promote division or Unity?
Calling for one group of workers to be privileged, to be given preferential treatment in hiring, does not promote unity, does it? I think of the example of Northern Ireland, workers were recruited locally, but the protestants were privileged above the Catholics, and this sowed division amongst working class people.
The other thing is, the 'solution'local jobs for local people, is an illusion. Every single job in this country if it were legislated tomorrow to be given to local British living people, would do nothing to resolve the concerns of those workers about lack of jobs. The responsibility for the shortage jobs does not lie with the mobility of workers, it lies with the bankers at this moment in time, and the capitalist system in general. It is not that we can't have full employment, it is that the capitalists have chosen to rein back investment, because of the lack of profit.
The one thing I will say about xenophobia, is regardless of whether the workers were or were not xenophobic, the dispute in the way it has been presented as certainly engendered a great deal of support from the xenophobes. All the fascist bulletin boards are loving it.
yup!that's what was happening anyway, those jobs weren't open to people from the area to apply for, is that not preferential?
I never doubted they would be, why would they want the fascists hijacking their dispute? But the question remains, why would the fascists etc attracted to it?the fact, as the guardian amongst others has reported, that the BNP had been driven from the protests
that's right, they dropped the slogan because in the terms of the bigger picture, in terms of the class struggle, it was not only a bogus, demand but a pole of attraction for the rebid rightsand that the slogan 'british jobs for british workers'' was being replaced with 'workers of the world unite' is significant.
and would not necessarily have happened without the intervention of the socialist party, respect etc. who were able to draw out the positives of the strike and channel it in the right direction.
which should be opposed. I believe one union Rep, argued we should employ British workers because they are cheaper.they were bringing in italian labour when there are skilled people in the area how can it be more financially viable for them to ship people in and house them on a barge than employ skilled people in the area? they must have been skimping on wages and conditions. Although this is denied but not proven, in one report i read (can't remember which, there have been so many) a portuguese or italian worker claimed they were earning £1000pm less than the british workforce.
I was thinking just this morning, I hope it has that effect.Winning 102 jobs open to locally based people without loss of italian/portuguese jobs and with everyone on the same contracts/pay/conditions and the books open to scruitiny by the trade unions cannot be seen as anything but a massive victory by probably the most powerful section of the british working class,in the energy industry.
Not only that, it did all of this whilst breaking the anti-trade union laws, not waiting for the right-wing trade union leaders to do something. If anything this strike will be inspirational to those moving into struggle over the next period for fighting those laws, taking on the bosses and the government and winning.
it goes round in circles because you for some reason completely misread what I said.How can this be Xenophobic, Unite negotiated a deal in which the 300 migrant workers kept their jobs?
These arguments seem to be going arounf in circles.
Is'nt time to move in a different direction?
I'm going to avoid the word xenophobic, I don't think that's really anything to do with the discussion. What I'm concerned about is the words unity and division. Do the slogans promote division or Unity?.
Calling the work-lives of temporary and agency workers in the UK the “dark underbelly” of British society, Trades Union Congress (TUC) General Secretary Brendan Barber gave the issue of contract and agency labour prominence on the opening day of the TUC Congress, 9 September, in Brighton.
Setting out specific instances of temporary or contract worker abuse in the UK, Barber called for new labour rights to be given to such workers in Britain. And in his keynote address to Congress, just prior to Prime Minister Gordon Brown speaking, Barber called on his government to quit the stalling, and endorse the EU Directive on Temporary and Agency Workers.
“Since we launched the commission on vulnerable employment,” Barber said, “I’ve met so many victims of unfair, systematic exploitation.
“There are so many issues to tackle in this dark underbelly of British life,” stated Barber. “I urge the government to deliver the promised European directive to give agency workers justice and dignity,” he said.
In 2004, the Warwick agreement was made in the UK, which was aimed at providing equal employment rights for temporary and agency workers, and to support the EU Directive. Even though the Blair government pledged to do so, it never did. The TUC has now called on the Brown government to not only support the directive, but also to pass UK laws giving temporary and agency workers full employment rights.
http://www.icem.org/en/73-Contract-...ess-Calls-on-Government-to-Adopt-EU-Directive
What I'm concerned about is the words unity and division. Do the slogans promote division or Unity?.
I never doubted they would be, why would they want the fascists hijacking their dispute? But the question remains, why would the fascists etc attracted to it?
Not as far as I know they didn't.Unite negotiated a deal in which the 300 migrant workers kept their jobs?
Not as far as I know they didn't.
I thought those 300 jobs which were going to migrant workers have now been reduced. with 102 jobs going to some of those workers handed 90-day redundancy notices from Shaws shop stewards.
part of the deal is that none of the italian and portuguese workers are laid off they may not work in that refinery but they are still employed by IREM.
ffs LJFLP does NOT promote division .. we are divided already .. LJFLW coupled with trade unionism etc is about making a strong working class that CAN stop that that does divide .. capitalThe slogans - both of them - Brown's recycled NF/BUF "BJFBW" and the toned-down LJFLW - promote division between the Euro-national workforce.
You're completely wrong. That incomplete history you described above is missing complicity of Histadrut Union who had an Israeli-Jewish jobs for Israeli-Jewish workers policy. That is ultra-nationalist. That is a type of protectionism, and under that policy, rampant privatisation of once-state businesses/institutions comparable to UK privatisation of transport, energy, and communications sectors have taken place, as has neoliberalisation of welfare state -pensions, health, welfare. FYI, it has never been the state alone who has dealt unequal blows to both Jewish and Arab 'foreign' workers, there has been complicity from Unions.
That's about fraud allegations towards the northern chapter's committee was not a labour dispute. The Histadrut is now going to remove them all from their positions as a result, so it gained nothing.
Now imagine what would happen if the unions here began action to remove every single shop steward involved in the wildcat strike here - e.g. Unite shop steward Kenny Logan, one of the unemployed at the picket line at LOR. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/england/humber/7869873.stm)
Back to Histadrut Union, they always had a policy that boycotted of Arab (foreign) produce. Histadrut was at the very forefront of the Buy Israeli (Burn Arab) produce campaigns. For it's first 40 years it barred Arabs from working alongside it's membership. 30 years ago, Histadrut created a separate Arab ('immigrant') section and collected union dues (without permission) from their wages, but did not represent Arab workers to the bosses nor did it allow access to members benefits, pensions, welfare. It continuously sided with bosses against Israeli Arab workers (who it treated as immigrants). Now Histadrut has improved maybe a little, but basically it supports protectionism and has a frightened and complicit workforce to represent and this makes it's workforce accept all manner of shit from business and union-tops, whilst union-tops participate and support demonisation and fail to fight for 'the immigrant other'.
The only union in Israel that does promote equal opportunities for Arab workers is WAC-Ma'an. A (right-wing) govt-linked organisation tried to take control of WAC-Ma'an and a quiet battle barely mentioned or supported by British TU's has been fought these last few years. http://www.workersadvicecenter.org/campaign/Campaign-press-release.htm
Maybe go and study the rise of neoliberalism and rampant privatisation since 1977 in Israel and you will alter your agreement with durruti02. Look since 1967 if you want to see effect in territories on indigenous Arab workers.
I don't understand what you write at the best of times. There is a pressing need to reach out to other European Trades' Unions and maybe join the Federation ICEM and ensure information is posted with them. The way the strikers were perceived abroad was not favourable so there is much work to be done to increase ties.
LJFLW/BJFBW is a slippery slope to intolerance for 'the other' (migrant) worker. British Unions need to reach out fast to other unions. I recommend to start with CC.OO (Confederacion Sindical de Comisiones Obreras) as the largest Spanish union, mainly due to Spain having the highest unemployment and the perception of UK Unions that these strike actions will have in Spain and also contact the CGTP of Portugal plus extended contact with ICEM seems paramount importance to participation in ICEM's study of Contract and Agency Labour (CAL.ICEM).
In 2007 (UK), the Labour Govt. announced a neoliberal plan to reward industry/bosses for taking on long-term unemployed, which is basically a revision of the pilot Israeli-style wisconsin plan "Mehalev" and seems identical to the Israeli "Lights towards Employment" (Wisconsin II) which will basically see Govt. reward the firms (bosses) if they employ unemployed Israeli (most likely Jewish) workers. Israel is a pilot - certainly a 'light to all nations', in that what it can get away with, will be happening in UK shortly afterwards. It is a pattern repeated over and over. Look and you will see this pattern.
How do you think it feels for an overseas migrant worker to hear Unite shop stewards call for a type of protectionism in LJFLW ? How do you think Brit workers feel if they work on contracts elsewhere in Europe?
It seems UK Govt. is engaged in some very bad stances with regard to Euro-national workers' rights and my fear is that by supporting LJFLW, the UK will alienate itself from other Euro-TU's and play into Govt/Bosses hands. They already set traps by promises of BJFBW and also the Winsconsin II plan announced back in Sept. 2007 by Prime Minister Brown.
In UK, neoliberalism has not been fought adequately by unions, so now welfare, pensions and health are either privatised or close to privatisation - the incoming 'Wisconsin II' plan, announced by Brown in Sept 2007 (financial incentive paid to employer to employ long-term unemployed). UK Unions need to buck their ideas up and become more internationalist in their outlook and strengthen their ties with European and International Trades' Unions. And we should beware also of the right-wing unions that do exist who are complicit with bosses, trade-off their existence for workers' rights and exist as cushions for neoliberal work practices rather than a force for positive change.
More protests are planned next week over the use of foreign workers at Staythorpe plant in Nottinghamshire, threatening a repeat of a national wave of wildcat strikes at oil refineries, gas terminals and power stations in sympathy with the dispute at Total’s Lindsey refinery.
Well I'm off to Cyprus for 3 months, supervision only using local labour.
This is what our company does all over the world, they provide the supervision and the company we work for supplies local labour to do the job.
And this is how it should be EVERYWHERE.
So you're putting Cypriot supervisors out of work then - bastard
If anyone is interested in hearing about the dispute from the inside, there's a public meeting on in Friends Meeting House on Euston Road in London on Friday 13th February at 7 PM.
It's jointly organised by the Socialist Party and Respect and the speakers include Keith Gibson, who was a member of the strike committee at Lindsey, and Jerry Hicks, the left candidate for General Secretary of Amicus.
Since you like orgainsing a solidarity meeting for the xenophobes and little englanders who went on strike, any chance on putting the hat round for Carol Thatcher as well?. Will you be selling Golliwogs in an attempt to redeem them, just as you are trying to redeem the buthers apron which infested the picket lines and fascist slogans like British Jobs for British workers which wer eon the placards?
It will be years before the left will trust you lot again
<snip>
It will be years before the left will trust you lot again
Since you like orgainsing a solidarity meeting for the xenophobes and little englanders who went on strike, any chance on putting the hat round for Carol Thatcher as well?. Will you be selling Golliwogs in an attempt to redeem them, just as you are trying to redeem the buthers apron which infested the picket lines and fascist slogans like British Jobs for British workers which wer eon the placards?
It will be years before the left will trust you lot again
It will be years before the left will trust you lot again
Crikey, that's insane. On here? Got a link?I've come back to this thread to see if the wankstain had explained himself but he hasn't, for all those people who didn't see it, this Jim Page advocated violence against the strikers.