Hundreds of women assaulted in German NYE celebrations

[ViolentPanda]

Very kind of you to volunteer for the job of being my own inner critic.

Very good of you to admit the obvious - that you currently have no "inner critic".

 

[Joe Reilly]

The fact is that the influx taking place now has a meaningful historical parallel in the Jews (and to a lesser extent the ethnic Germans).

'An influx of ethnic Germans into Germany has a meaningful historical parallel for the current situation'.

By qualifying it with 'to a lesser extent' the stupidity of the statement is simply highlighted.

 

[ViolentPanda]

'An influx of ethnic Germans into Germany has a meaningful historical parallel for the current situation'.

By qualifying it with 'to a lesser extent' the stupidity of the statement is simply highlighted.

The "lesser extent" refers to the fact that many ethnic Germans didn't share a language with the country they were expelled to. if you took it to mean anything else, then the stupidity is yours alone.

 

[sovereignb]

Apparently 55% of all asylum seekers who arrived in Germany during 2015 were under 25, with the majority of those being teenaged boys, who came with no family. Just saying, that’s very young isn’t it.

"As of November 2015, an estimated 30 percent of those applying for asylum this year were under 18, according to Germany’s Federal Office for Migration and Refugees. Another 25 percent were in their late teens or early 20s, many of them making the journey alone."
Berlin's refugee youth

Figures stats and more figures. I wonder how useful any of it is. As someone who has worked with unaccompanied minors, they are rarely the age they claim to be (often actually much older) but obviously you get more support if your deemed as a child.

 

[Mr Moose]

I agree in terms of what you are replying to here... if the woman wants to wave a tamberine about then so what, I want to live in a society where people can wave tamberines about. But is there a "womens collective response" going on? It's not like women are a hive mind or something.

Women do have a collective response, marches, reclaim the streets etc. sometimes a bit tambouriney. I don't even know if the original picture was anything to do with the current response, but people were writing as if it were.

Maybe some of it looks a bit fey to the average keyboard revolutionary, but it's still resistance, to stand there and sing together joyfully in the face of rapey men and 57 other sorts of disapproval.

 

[J Ed]

'An influx of ethnic Germans into Germany has a meaningful historical parallel for the current situation'.

By qualifying it with 'to a lesser extent' the stupidity of the statement is simply highlighted.

I also have to wonder about these examples of mass immigration (or similar, the return of the Portuguese from the colonies after the fall of the Estado Novo etc) can anyone think of any examples where they accompanied multiple mass sexual assault and rape sprees? I can of course think of parallels there in Europe and elsewhere but not accompanying immigration. In the past this behaviour came with invasions, colonisation and occupation by invading armies not people seeking asylum.

 

[camouflage]

Women do have a collective response, marches, reclaim the streets etc. sometimes a bit tambouriney. I don't even know if the original picture was anything to do with the current response, but people were writing as if it were.

Maybe some of it looks a bit fey to the average keyboard revolutionary, but it's still resistance, to stand there and sing together joyfully in the face of rapey men and 57 other sorts of disapproval.

Better to take to the streets with tambourines and sing than don a hijab and scurry home for sure, resistance takes many forms. Still not really a collective response in terms of anybody with 2 X chromos though. No matter, pluralism for the win.

 

[J Ed]

Better to take to the streets with tambourines and sing than don a hijab and scurry home for sure, resistance takes many forms. Still not really a collective response though in terms of anybody with 2 X chromos though. No matter, pluralism for the win.

Holding up a sign saying "Have Respect & Nice Sex <3" aimed at a thousand strong gang of rapists might make the people holding the sign feel better but the idea that it is suddenly going to persuade anyone who has sought asylum in a country then turned around and decided to hunt women in that country in a pack in order to rape them to stop doing that is ridiculous. It isn't.

 

[camouflage]

Holding up a sign saying "Have Respect & Nice Sex <3" aimed at a thousand strong gang of rapists might make the people holding the sign feel better but the idea that it is suddenly going to persuade anyone who has sought asylum in a country then turned around and decided to hunt women in that country in a pack in order to rape them to stop doing that is ridiculous. It isn't.

Two very different ways of seeing the world yes. To the rapists "respect" and "sex" don't belong in the same sentence, to that older women who probably was an activist in the 60's fighting for sexual liberation... for the right to say yes to sexuality and no that doesn't make her a slut or deserving of assualt, perhaps it's that she's saying these two concepts do and should stand together iyswim.

Western women aren't fair game because Western society is sexually liberal. Anyway women in hijabs are also Taharrushed. I agree with you in that I think her rebuttal to the rapists has been deployed in the wrong argument.

 

[Mr Moose]

Holding up a sign saying "Have Respect & Nice Sex <3" aimed at a thousand strong gang of rapists might make the people holding the sign feel better but the idea that it is suddenly going to persuade anyone who has sought asylum in a country then turned around and decided to hunt women in that country in a pack in order to rape them to stop doing that is ridiculous. It isn't.

What is ridiculous is to suggest that women, with their tongue in cheek slogans or folky sing songs, think that this is the sole answer. Maybe they do it to cheer themselves up and find collective courage? Stop being so daftly literal about it.

 

[frogwoman]

holding that sign isn't any more or less ridiculous than any of the other signs you get on protests.

 

[bimble]

Yep, just seeing those women with their tambourines and their shouting "against sexism and against racism " did cheer me up, a bit. A lot more than "men's collective response" has so far, if you think such a thing exists.

 

[likesfish]

I feel that what this excellent thread needs is some Laurie Penny.

Sarcasm aside, while I don't agree with her whole NS article about it, I do agree with this:



I also understand her tendency towards sarcasm below - I do feel there are some very simple-minded people on this thread who think that reminding people of Western misogyny is excusing Middle Eastern misogyny. When, clearly, the people pointing this out have been trying to counterbalance THE MIDDLE EAST HAS A SEXUAL ASSAULT PROBLEM that some people are yelling. Well yes, it does, but it is a little like a Labour politician shouting that the Tories have a lying problem. It's probably true that Tories lie more than Labour, or on average claim higher expenses. But surely we do need to talk about both?

Sounds to me too much #allrapesarebad

This is a specific problem claiming their are other problems doesnt help resolve this one.

 

[J Ed]

Yep, just seeing those women with their tambourines and their shouting "against sexism and against racism " did cheer me up, a bit. A lot more than "men's collective response" has so far, if you think such a thing exists.

Well it clearly isn't a collective response by women, it's a response from a tiny number of women. I doubt most simply believe that these rapists just have vague misunderstandings about sexual etiquette. I suspect that a better example of the 'collective response' by women is the surge in interest and purchases of pepper spray on the German version of Amazon.

 

[J Ed]

Sounds to me too much #allrapesarebad

This is a specific problem claiming their are other problems doesnt help resolve this one.

Her article also suggests that somehow the people participating in these mass rape and sexual assault sprees aren't also involved in the 'every day sexism' which Laurie Penny is trying to, using weasel words, disassociate them from. I very much doubt that these obviously experienced sexual predators aren't participating in the same behaviour at other times.

 

[bimble]

Her article also suggests that somehow the people participating in these mass rape and sexual assault sprees aren't also involved in the 'every day sexism' which Laurie Penny is trying to, using weasel words, disassociate them from. I very much doubt that these obviously experienced sexual predators aren't participating in the same behaviour at other times.

Look, at least she acknowledges that there are different degrees of what we call 'rape culture' in different parts of the world. Mad as it sounds, that is quite a bold move, because 'pretty nasty baggage that way lies" , or admitting it will somehow "fuel the far right" or something.

 

[frogwoman]

i doubt very much that the woman holding that sign hasn't experienced her fair share of sexism tbh. not very comfortable with telling people how they should react. one of the reasons why women often hold off from telling male friends and partners that they've experienced sexual abuse etc is the fear that they might fly off into a rage and go out looking for the guy to beat him up and then get hurt in the process.

 

[frogwoman]

of course women can and do do the same shit, but that's a big part of why these things don't get discussed more i think.

 

[camouflage]

i doubt very much that the woman holding that sign hasn't experienced her fair share of sexism tbh. not very comfortable with telling people how they should react. one of the reasons why women often hold off from telling male friends and partners that they've experienced sexual abuse etc is the fear that they might fly off into a rage and go out looking for the guy to beat him up and then get hurt in the process.

There was a clip on a news report of a crowd of men assaulting a woman on Tahrir Square, you couldn't see the woman, you could only hear her screams as the mass of men surrounded her. Frankly, thoughts of taking a chain-saw to the mob and see their body parts flying off in all directions feels like the proper response. Very dangerous emotions, and scary to think where they could lead. Perhaps we need the tambourines now more than ever.

 

[Diamond]

So it says on wikipedia, anyway.
Personally, I prefer dictionaries that can't be edited.

You presumably mean encyclopedia?

 

[Pickman's model]

You presumably mean encyclopedia?

encyclopedias.

 

[J Ed]

There was a clip on a news report of a crowd of men assaulting a woman on Tahrir Square, you couldn't see the woman, you could only hear her screams as the mass of men surrounded her. Frankly, thoughts of taking a chain-saw to the mob and see their body parts flying off in all directions feels like the proper response. Very dangerous emotions, and scary to think where they could lead. Perhaps we need the tambourines now more than ever.

If the competing narratives are tambourines on the one side and 'rapefugees' on the other I fear that many will opt for the latter.

 

[bluescreen]

Tambourines put me in mind of rantantan to draw attention to bad male behaviour, though in that case it's a village shaming a wife-beater. Rippingale Village - Rippingale's Ran Tan Tan

 

[Pickman's model]

Tambourines put me in mind of rantantan to draw attention to bad male behaviour, though in that case it's a village shaming a wife-beater. Rippingale Village - Rippingale's Ran Tan Tan

hey mr tambourine man

 

[Bernie Gunther]

There was a clip on a news report of a crowd of men assaulting a woman on Tahrir Square, you couldn't see the woman, you could only hear her screams as the mass of men surrounded her. Frankly, thoughts of taking a chain-saw to the mob and see their body parts flying off in all directions feels like the proper response. Very dangerous emotions, and scary to think where they could lead. Perhaps we need the tambourines now more than ever.

You've neatly summarised part of why the far right are so keen on this stuff

Tambourine lady was standing up against that shit imo

 

[Pickman's model]

There was a clip on a news report of a crowd of men assaulting a woman on Tahrir Square, you couldn't see the woman, you could only hear her screams as the mass of men surrounded her. Frankly, thoughts of taking a chain-saw to the mob and see their body parts flying off in all directions feels like the proper response. Very dangerous emotions, and scary to think where they could lead. Perhaps we need the tambourines now more than ever.

you might find you chopped the woman you were trying to save

 

[butchersapron]

Tambourines put me in mind of rantantan to draw attention to bad male behaviour, though in that case it's a village shaming a wife-beater. Rippingale Village - Rippingale's Ran Tan Tan

Rough music. Skimimngtons still happen.

 

[camouflage]

You've neatly summarised part of why the far right are so keen on this stuff

Yes, it's very Anakin Skywalker.

 

[bluescreen]

You presumably mean encyclopedia?

or encyclopediæ. I think he means dictionaries, actually, where you go to look up a word.

 

[camouflage]

you might find you chopped the woman you were trying to save

Not to mention that even if you didn't, it might not assist in her healing process to first be sexually assaulted and then find herself in the midst of a bloody scatter of body parts.