Hundreds of women assaulted in German NYE celebrations

[laptop]

There is absolutely no reason to start rubbishing women's collective response.

CR is here to PROTECT ladies and children from the foreign horde of beasts. He's very excited by rape, I mean by thinking about killing rapists. Don't disturb him by being people.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Conspiracy theories are also thrilling, apparently.

 

[butchersapron]

I hear this stuff has spread to Hamelin.

 

[Casually Red]

Safe in the sense that there's some clear evidence for it, or safe in the sense you think nobody could be arsed to challenge your assertion?

It may be the case that this was actually something more than a particularly repellent example of organised street crime, but I have not seen you produce any convincing evidence for it, nor have I found any elsewhere.

So even if it turned out that this was in fact some sort of Dasesh sex offences commando at work it is not 'safe' to assert it on the basis of it fitting with some sort of apocalyptic world-view without also supplying some evidence that requires more explanation than that provided by the known existence of at least somewhat organised street crime gangs with MOs involving swarming and distraction, a large drunken crowd in the territories where they normally operate on NYE and a pre-existing far-right social media shitstorm.

I've no idea what you're on about. I've stated quite clearly I don't believe this has anything to do with daesh, and have done so from the outset . I've compared it to tahrir square and stated repeatedly it's an imported form of very serious anti social and anti women behaviour . That even has a name . And posted a number of links to that effect .
But I still regard it as a form of pogrom against women . I think it's a fair description. Why you've brought daesh into it is anyone's guess .

My guess is you've introduced it as a deliberate strawman in order to heap ridicule on the scale and gravity of what's actually happened to these women.

 

[Greebozz]

I'm just theorising here, but in Germany there is a deep shame about what occurred during World War II with the mass murder of the Jews. So who knows what emotional pressures they feel under. They have sort of turned it around because, they've done a grand if misguided humanitarian act and it looks like they're going to become the victim of their kindness.

A new narrative has been written of Germany making amends for the past atrocities by welcoming in refugees in large number. If the story goes on to show that Germany becomes a victim of their kindness, and their populations are threatened and abused and assaulted, they can know that they've done the humanitarian thing.

 

[Casually Red]

There is absolutely no reason to start rubbishing women's collective response.

Unless they're the victims of these animals . Then it's perfectly fine to sneer at, scoff at, silence , undermine, censor their accounts and even make excuses for their attackers . In order to keep ones " left" credentials intact . Threads full of it.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm just theorising here, but in Germany there is a deep shame about what occurred during World War II with the mass murder of the Jews. So who knows what emotional pressures they feel under. They have sort of turned it around because, they've done a grand if misguided humanitarian act and it looks like they're going to become the victim of their kindness.

A new narrative has been written of Germany making amends for the past atrocities by welcoming in refugees in large number. If the story goes on to show that Germany becomes a victim of their kindness, and their populations are threatened and abused and assaulted, they can know that they've done the humanitarian thing.

perhaps you should leave the thinking to other people.

yes, i don't suppose 'the germans' feel particularly chuffed about the holocaust but lest we forget at least 20,000,000 people in the ussr died, let alone germans, french etc etc etc - it's more war guilt than simply the holocaust

 

[J Ed]

There is absolutely no reason to start rubbishing women's collective response.

I don't see anyone rubbishing a collective response, but some of these liberal responses are just fucking bizarre.

 

[frogwoman]

I don't see anyone rubbishing a collective response, but some of these liberal responses are just fucking bizarre.

maybe a poor translation from german?

 

[J Ed]

maybe a poor translation from german?

You would hope so. Somehow I doubt it.

 

[Greebozz]

The news reports we are discussing here are very upsetting and maybe life is going to get worse for Europe and the UK. But is that not itself a metaphor for life, good things pass away, we get old things get more shit. Increased risk of sexual assault or crime is just added to the huge growing mountain problems such as global warming, water shortages and disease epidemics. But it's still a very painful transition when one can remember the carefree times before. There's a lot of finger-pointing and anger at German politicians but it's a brand-new situation. But countries have been facing invasions and occupations from the beginning of time.

I think we need to remember the Buddhist and Christian approach, forgive people, keep loving despite whatever is going on. This forum is good as a sort of pressure valve where one can express how one is feeling and talk it out. Is also important to maintain ones sense of humour speaking of which Germany and is Islam might be ideal partners because neither have any sense of humour

 

[J Ed]

Germans organize vigilante groups on social media | News | DW.COM | 11.01.2016

Who can blame them?

oh..

Yet despite their claims of peaceful intent, North Rhine-Westphalia's anti-fascist collective has used the same social media platform to accuse the group of having a far-right, anti-immigrant agenda, and of ties to fascist soccer hooligans and Dügida - Dusseldorf's iteration of the anti-Islamization PEGIDA movement.

 

[frogwoman]

Germans organize vigilante groups on social media | News | DW.COM | 11.01.2016

Who can blame them?

oh..

how do we know that some of them (though not all) aren't just wanting to beat up foreigners/anyone they think is different or a bit mental though?

 

[J Ed]

how do we know that some of them (though not all) aren't just wanting to beat up foreigners/anyone they think is different or a bit mental though?

I suppose we don't since we don't know what is going on on the ground but it seems very unlikely to me that most people in these groups, or motivated to be in these groups or supportive, aren't going to be normal sensible but frightened people given the group's stated aims. Anti-fascists are calling these people racists while offering no solution themselves, fuck them they are basically driving people into the arms of Pegida. No matter how many times you shout racist at someone they are going to care less about being called racist than they are going to care about a thousand strong gang of rapists.

 

[J Ed]

Anti-fascists could form self-defence groups against rapists too, that would be a pretty good idea, but they have completely lot control of the narrative and the situation and so have no influence.

 

[Pickman's model]

But it's still a very painful transition when one can remember the carefree times before.

what, the cold war?

 

[frogwoman]

what, the cold war?

 

[irf520]

what, the cold war?

No, the "end of history". The cold war was before that.

 

[frogwoman]

I suppose we don't since we don't know what is going on on the ground but it seems very unlikely to me that most people in these groups, or motivated to be in these groups or supportive, aren't going to be normal sensible but frightened people given the group's stated aims. Anti-fascists are calling these people racists while offering no solution themselves, fuck them they are basically driving people into the arms of Pegida. No matter how many times you shout racist at someone they are going to care less about being called racist than they are going to care about a thousand strong gang of rapists.

well yeah true but when for example i was sexually assaulted and told guys i knew about it the last thing i wanted was them to go off on some macho hard guy spree, it's a natural reaction of course but i get fairly uncomfortable about that sort of thing cos it can so easily hit the wrong targets

 

[Pickman's model]

No, the "end of history". The cold war was before that.

i don't recall the 'long 1990s' from the fall of the berlin wall to 9/11 as being particularly carefree

 

[frogwoman]

i don't recall the 'long 1990s' from the fall of the berlin wall to 9/11 as being particularly carefree

maybe he means the carefree times at the turn of last century

 

[Sea Star]

i don't recall the 'long 1990s' from the fall of the berlin wall to 9/11 as being particularly carefree

it wasn't - nasty little wars all over the globe and the US invading Iraq and then bombing it into the stone age for 10 years...

 

[Pickman's model]

maybe he means the carefree times at the turn of last century

 

[frogwoman]

he might mean the post-war boom

 

[Pickman's model]

he might mean the post-war boom

the post-war boom?

 

[frogwoman]

the post-war boom?

so carefree back then

 

[ViolentPanda]

Are you sure you want to win your argument about there being historical precedents for mass migration into Germany? Are you aiming to put people's minds at rest?

And speaking of not thinking...
A poster implied that what is happening now is unprecedented. I've simply pointed out that:
a) it isn't unprecedented in terms of numbers, and
b) it isn't unprecedented in terms of religion and culture.

Oh, and if you're trying to make a mealy-mouthed point about Nazism, and the destruction of Europe's Jews, you obviously have no idea how contingent anti-Semitism was to the Nazis, until they were actually in power.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I think it's safe to describe the events of new years eve as a series of organised pogroms across germany against women . I really don't think that's an exaggeration at all .

How many women were massacred for being women?
Massacre of a social, ethnic or cultural group is, after all, what "pogrom" means.

 

[Pickman's model]

How many women were massacred for being women?
Massacre of a social, ethnic or cultural group is, after all, what "pogrom" means.

there may of course be rather more pogroms the other way round, which fulfil all the necessary criteria

 

[Casually Red]

How many women were massacred for being women?
Massacre of a social, ethnic or cultural group is, after all, what "pogrom" means.

No it doesn't. It means violent persecution carried out on a large scale . This was sexual violence directed at hundreds of women in a coordinated fashion right across Germany .