Hundreds of women assaulted in German NYE celebrations

[Pickman's model]

Why do you feel the need to apologise, this is a discussion board, if you think you are right, stand by what you said.

you never do

 

[irf520]

Oktoberfest 7million visitors and a week.
Nye one night much smaller crowds and a specific demographic

Don't mention the demographic - that would be racist.

 

[treelover]

In an article in Marx 21(SWP) Silke Stöckle and Marion Wegscheider ostensibly discuss the Cologne events, but hardly mention the attacks, even the nature of them, instead just attacking the usual far right suspects, pathetic,

no link, but the SWP hack Marsinah posts it in the Smith article comments

 

[bimble]

this imaginary problem?

No. A real problem. As evidenced by the demonstrations in Cologne yesterday.

 

[goldenecitrone]

yeh but gc's posts should be heard as a raspberry and passed over.

says one whose posts are as the constant diarrhoea of a cancerous bowel.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Updated Reuters summary.

Some facts mixed with some speculation by the look of it. Sounds like they're taking the multi-city aspect seriously, but having seen how many lies our own cops tell to the press whenever they fuck up on this scale, and how eager the press are to play the sensation game, I'd suggest keeping a large pinch of salt handy for anything that isn't clearly factual.

Attacks on women in Cologne and other German cities on New Year's Eve have prompted more than 600 criminal complaints, with police suspicion resting on asylum seekers, putting pressure on Chancellor Angela Merkel and her open door migrant policy.

The attacks, mostly targeting women and ranging from theft to sexual molestation, have prompted a highly-charged debate in Germany about its welcoming stance for refugees and migrants, more than one million of whom arrived last year.

The sudden nature of the violent attacks and the fact that they stretched from Hamburg to Frankfurt prompted Germany's justice minister Heiko Maas to speculate in a newspaper that they had been planned or coordinated.

The debate on migration will be further fueled by the acknowledgement by the authorities in North Rhine-Westphalia that a man shot dead as he tried to enter a Paris police station last week was an asylum seeker with seven identities who lived in Germany.

In Cologne, police said on Sunday that 516 criminal complaints had been filed by individuals or groups in relation to assaults on New Year's Eve, while police in Hamburg said 133 similar charges had been lodged with the north German city.

Frankfurt also registered complaints, although far fewer.

The investigation in Cologne is focused largely on asylum seekers or illegal migrants from north Africa, police said. They arrested one 19-year-old Moroccan man on Saturday evening.

In Cologne, where a 100-strong force of officers continued their investigations, around 40 percent of the complaints included sexual offences, including two rapes.

Growing scale of Cologne attacks stokes German debate on migrants

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

This thread is very interesting to say the least.

The "cover-up" only lasted about 4 days due to twitter, as I understand it.
My point was that the fact that it was covered up at all (by German police, state and media) was a big mistake, which played into the hands of the right. there is a lot of evidence about this and a lot of anger about it too.

I find it very interesting that no one, not the police, not the authorites, no one gave a shit about reports of mass assault until it turned out the mooslims were doing it.

I do understand that it's far more comfortable to stay silent on this story or else to choose one of these:

a) "All men are potential rapists" - it is irrelevant where the people who carried out the NYE attacks came from, whoever they are they're just criminals and twisted bastards. From which follows that it's racist to pay much attention at all to the testimony the victims and the police have given about the swarthiness / non-German-speakingness of the attackers or to even discuss that this story seems to be unprecedented in 'the west'. Because like, this sort of mass attack on women is just as likely to have happened at Notting Hill Carnival. Except it doesn't but still, to say so is racist.

or

b) We should not be making such a fuss about this mass assault of women in a public place , because women are assaulted every day both 'here' and everywhere else, and to dwell on this unfortunate event gives white western women undue value as victims, which is of course (yes it is) racist.
?

How about a bit of everything? Of course geo-political region is important. Specifically because these young men have come from an area where the rule of law basically hasn't really existed apart from in it's most corrupt form for at least 20 years. That coupled with a lack of a feminist movement and a massively patriarchal society. So yeah that's important cos they've grown up doing this kind of shit all and probably see not much wrong with it, and if they do, probably don't really care about legal issues anyway.

Having said that, if the UK were bombed to shit and destabilised with corrupt dictatorial government after corrupt dictatorial government with a ineffective police force I'm 100% sure that there'd be 1000s of white European men itching to do the same thing. If men in Europe can get away with it sneakily then they do it, and the police somewhat let it slide (victim blaming, not taking reports seriously etc etc).

The only difference I can see here is that white men wouldn't have the gall to do this en mass in public just because they don't have the cheek to think they could get away with it so brazenly. And the police probably didn't expect anyone to try.

Point 2

I find it hilarious, maddening and saddening that suddenly fascists, anti-feminists, and right wing loons suddenly want to support women, solely due to "the mooslims". Especially the anti-feminists and loonatic American libertarians - who harp on about how terrible false rape accusations are whenever they can. I do wonder what percentage of the Cologne assaults they think are false?

To quote Tommy Robinson: "Our women"

Rape is only really an issue for men in Europe when someone else is doing the raping.

 

[mk12]

In an article in Marx 21(SWP) Silke Stöckle and Marion Wegscheider ostensibly discuss the Cologne events, but hardly mention the attacks, even the nature of them, instead just attacking the usual far right suspects, pathetic,

no link, but the SWP hack Marsinah posts it in the Smith article comments

Why do you read this type of thing? The SWP and their affiliates are an irrelevance.

 

[Pickman's model]

No. A real problem. As evidenced by the demonstrations in Cologne yesterday.

yeh. you say dc part of this problem.

 

[treelover]

600 complaints now, in one night.

 

[Pickman's model]

says one whose posts are as the constant diarrhoea of a cancerous bowel.

says the man who wants to see Spymaster's son dead

 

[treelover]

Why do you read this type of thing? The SWP and their affiliates are an irrelevance.

They are part of Die Linke, which is now the main opposition,

 

[treelover]

This thread is very interesting to say the least.



I find it very interesting that no one, not the police, not the authorites, no one gave a shit about reports of mass assault until it turned out the mooslims were doing it.



How about a bit of everything? Of course geo-political region is important. Specifically because these young men have come from an area where the rule of law basically hasn't really existed apart from in it's most corrupt form for at least 20 years. That coupled with a lack of a feminist movement and a massively patriarchal society. So yeah that's important cos they've grown up doing this kind of shit all and probably see not much wrong with it, and if they do, probably don't really care about legal issues anyway.

Having said that, if the UK were bombed to shit and destabilised with corrupt dictatorial government after corrupt dictatorial government with a ineffective police force I'm 100% sure that there'd be 1000s of white European men itching to do the same thing. If men in Europe can get away with it sneakily then they do it, and the police somewhat let it slide (victim blaming, not taking reports seriously etc etc).

The only difference I can see here is that white men wouldn't have the gall to do this en mass in public just because they don't have the cheek to think they could get away with it so brazenly. And the police probably didn't expect anyone to try.

Point 2

I find it hilarious, maddening and saddening that suddenly fascists, anti-feminists, and right wing loons suddenly want to support women, solely due to "the mooslims". Especially the anti-feminists and loonatic american libertarians - who harp on about how terrible false rape accusations are whenever they can. I do wonder what percentage they think of the Cologne assaults they think are false?

To quote Tommy Robinson: "Our women"

Rape is only an really issue for men in Europe when someone else is doing the raping.

Mr equivocator join your colleagues.

 

[DotCommunist]

And I didn't mean to accuse DC of wanting to avert their eyes, just that his binary options of how we might talk about this were not sufficient, were part of the problem.

that was me laying out the reactions I see going on in three broad categories, not me saying thats your options take it or leave it. Apols if that was not clear enough, I am prone to rambling trains of thought on occaison- thinking out loud. I expect people to just follow what I mean when that doesn't always happen.

I meant what I said with injury to one, injury to all. That counts for a lot when you come at a situation from that angle. The tired old bullshit about 'der failure of der left' as if it was a monolithic entity, using some twonks to claim anyone who questions the 'dere kulture' narrative is a flaky lefto free-the-paedos sort. Its not true.

 

[DotCommunist]

Mr equivocator join your colleagues.

Mrs

 

[J Ed]

I find it very interesting that no one, not the police, not the authorites, no one gave a shit about reports of mass assault until it turned out the mooslims were doing it.

Is that really the case? Was the previous assumption that it was non-Muslims or an assortment of Muslims and others and so a mass rape gang of 1000 in one city and several hundreds in others was not a big deal so it wasn't reported or was it a deliberate intention of the police and the media to cover up a horrific story in the hope that doing so would not further fray already very difficult community relations?

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

Mr equivocator join your colleagues.

???

Not sure what you mean by that.

And it's Mrs

 

[Casually Red]

Disgraceful report by Hugh Sykes on Broadcasting House(R4) about the attacks, he appeared to question the number of complaints, the nature of the attacks, more robbery than sexual assault, concur with the German social worker who is being wheeled out regularly now who says it may be a conspiracy and that the men were encouraged to pursue the attack, informed that german women were easy, (wtf) bu dark forces. It is clear he has an agenda, he supports the refugees, Merkel, etc, that is ok in a personal capacity, but not as an objective journalist.

One of the women surrounded and attacked said she had nothing stolen . How that relates to all cases I don't know. But in her case the motive appears to have been purely sexual .

 

[emanymton]

In an article in Marx 21(SWP) Silke Stöckle and Marion Wegscheider ostensibly discuss the Cologne events, but hardly mention the attacks, even the nature of them, instead just attacking the usual far right suspects, pathetic,

no link, but the SWP hack Marsinah posts it in the Smith article comments

You mean this article which says this?

Not least for this reason, the sexual attacks must be taken seriously and the perpetrators punished. We must all take to the streets against sexism and racism – as was done on 5 January before the Cologne cathedral.

I agree it's not very good, but not as bad as you make out.

 

[bimble]

yeh. you say dc part of this problem.

I said that because he was able to state the binary idiocy very starkly in his post above:

There's a couple of reactions here, maybe three. One, downplay it like some absurd headbangers have. Other, the rightist crow of 'I told you so' and making hay from it. or a third, frantically line up with the right in their 'culture war' line in order to avoid looking like some total lefty flake. I'm not buying either of them.

That cowardice (exemplified by the apparent coverup by well-meaning German police state & press ) does seem to be a part of the current problem yes.

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

Is that really the case? Was the previous assumption that it was non-Muslims or an assortment of Muslims and others and so a mass rape gang of 1000 in one city and several hundreds in others was not a big deal so it wasn't reported or was it a deliberate intention of the police and the media to cover up a horrific story in the hope that doing so would not further fray already very difficult community relations?

From what I've read, first A then B.

The police didn't really take the assaults seriously (as per usual), and then when they realised it was serious and would harm community tenstions they tried to cover it up. Or have I got it mixed up?

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Is that really the case? Was the previous assumption that it was non-Muslims or an assortment of Muslims and others and so a mass rape gang of 1000 in one city and several hundreds in others was not a big deal so it wasn't reported or was it a deliberate intention of the police and the media to cover up a horrific story in the hope that doing so would not further fray already very difficult community relations?

I get the impression from the sequence of events that the cops didn't really see a big problem, just a bit of petty crime in their minds, until social media made it clear that a lot of women had been sexually assaulted and robbed and they started feeling the media heat.

Then as cops do (cf Rochdale) very likely started making shit up about being scared of being called racists (as if) to excuse their lack of action.

 

[Casually Red]

absolutely. And yes, many of them are men of fighting age avoiding being conscripted by one side or another into fighting. So? It's fantasy to talk of training them up to go back as partisans to 'liberate their homeland'. Dangerous madness, in fact - this is a civil war in which foreign actors are now to the fore on all sides, highly factionalised and with a real prospect that 'Syria' may never exist meaningfully again. If they're in govt areas, they'll be conscripted into Assad's army. If they're in other areas, they'll be pressured to fight for whichever faction controls the area. People seriously calling for sending them back to that?

They may already have been part of that in many cases . Which would also explain their complete lack of fear of police . I've saw something similar in disturbances in Serbia, with even live rounds being little deterrent .

 

[J Ed]

From what I've read, first A then B.

The police didn't really take the assaults seriously (as per usual), and then when they realised it was serious and would harm community tenstions they tried to cover it up. Or have I got it mixed up?

Sorry but I don't believe that there is any way whatsoever that one group of a thousand and several groups of hundreds participating in a rape and sexual assault spree would not be newsworthy regardless of the background of the perpetrators. From reading police accounts it is clear that the police on the ground were well aware that this had been an ongoing problem, and that it was a problem during the night itself. How could they not be? A female officer was assaulted and the police were prevented from aiding her by the crowd. We only have such detailed reports of any of this because the accounts were leaked by less senior officers.

It seems very clear to me that there has been a conspiracy of silence from the politicians, the senior brass of the police and the media and that is due to the background of the perpetrators. That and I'm sure an intention to protect the image of the institution of the police, as in Rotherham. We aren't only hearing about it because they are Muslim, it took several days to break because they were Muslim.

 

[Pickman's model]

I said that because he was able to state the binary idiocy very starkly in his post above:



That cowardice (exemplified by the apparent coverup by well-meaning German police state & press ) does seem to be a part of the current problem yes.

youu do know binary doesn't mean three, don't you?

 

[bimble]

It seems very clear to me that there has been a conspiracy of silence from the politicians, the senior brass of the police and the media and that is due to the background of the perpetrators. That and I'm sure an intention to protect the image of the institution of the police, as in Rotherham. We aren't only hearing about it because they are Muslim, it took several days to break because they were Muslim.

Not sure about 'muslim' but lets just say the 300 + victims in their testimony said that it wasn't a gang of blond Germans who attacked them.
But yes, the conspiracy of well-meaning silence seems to be a very big part of the problem.

 

[Casually Red]

It wasn't refugees that attacked women, it was men. We already had a pretty major men problem in Europe (how many millions of women are attacked, raped and murdered by men every year?) and now we have more men, many with even worse attitudes towards women, so even more of a problem. It's the same problem that there was last year and the year before and every other year though. I don't see it as a reason to close borders.

It was refugees and migrants who attacked women though . In large groups in a co ordinated fashion , involving major intimidation by weight of numbers across a number of cities simultaneously . In an unprecedented phenomenon the Germans haven't seen before . to try and pass this off as anything approaching normality is an insult to every ones intelligence .

It's not the bloody same as last year . That's a lie . Your post amounts to " nothing to see here, there's no crisis, move along "

 

[bimble]

youu do know binary doesn't mean three, don't you?

ye. Because he only managed to offer 2 options. No trinaries here just 2 choices.

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

Sorry but I don't believe that there is any way whatsoever that one group of a thousand and several groups of hundreds participating in a rape and sexual assault spree would not be newsworthy regardless of the background of the perpetrators. From reading police accounts it is clear that the police on the ground were well aware that this had been an ongoing problem, and that it was a problem during the night itself. How could they not be? A female officer was assaulted and the police were prevented from aiding her by the crowd. We only have such detailed reports of any of this because the accounts were leaked by less senior officers.

It seems very clear to me that there has been a conspiracy of silence from the politicians, the senior brass of the police and the media and that is due to the background of the perpetrators. That and I'm sure an intention to protect the image of the institution of the police, as in Rotherham. We aren't only hearing about it because they are Muslim, it took several days to break because they were Muslim.

I find nothing to disagree with here. Point is. I find the outrage from the right hilariously hypocritical as they are normally the most "sceptical" and unsupportive of feminist issues. They really don't care about the women here.

And the general left and establishment are so afraid of being called out as racist that they happily push women under the bus.

Women lose no matter what side of the political spectrum you are coming from.

Again.

I'm fucking fuming about it. ALL of them can go fuck themselves far as I'm concerned.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Has anyone got a credible link that details the volunteer policewoman attack? I've seen it referenced, but can't find the source.

My strong impression from the initial accounts (e.g. the initial BBC story) was that the cops simply didn't react to what was going on as anything more than some petty crime, and only later told stories suggesting that they wanted to act but couldn't when the media got on their case about it.

If there's some evidence that I'm wrong about that, I'd appreciate a link.