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Hundreds of women assaulted in German NYE celebrations

Canada is taking a large amount of refugees, but only women, families and elders, bit like cameron, not sure, but maybe this is a solution.
 
J Ed said:
Chaos and Violence: How New Year's Eve in Cologne Has Changed Germany - SPIEGEL ONLINE
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Thanks for that. I'm still a bit suspicious of some of the cop stuff. That story about the guy ripping up his papers and saying 'Mrs Merkel invited me' just sounds like racist cop bullshit to me, but in general that seemed like a pretty well balanced summary from a number of viewpoints.

It's interesting that by that account the story has been driven by the far right from the beginning, where they picked an eye witness account up from a now vanished post on the Cologne equivalent of Craig's List and started yelling about media cover ups.
 
Bernie Gunther said:
The police accounts and the victim accounts don't actually tally all that well.

They both agree that the assaults were happening, the victims whose accounts I've read mostly didn't think the cops were doing much to help.
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The police don't deny that. The question is why . The report makes clear the police were horrified by these events . Their lack of action can't be dismissed as a mere lack of concern . one of their own officers was a victim.

Politics was the reason.
 
Gangs of lads, young and very stupid pissed up on new years eve in a semi riot? To then write off a whole section of society as backwards woman hating thugs? I'm not necessarily saying anyone has done that here. I don't know if many of them were youths possibly without much of a support base letting off steam and causing mayhem as opposed to an organised contingent of supposedly grown men. I think it does make a difference.

I wonder how much of an "its them backward Muslims to blame" angle there is going to be? Rather than young men without parents or a family network going on a robbery and assault binge? I'm not excusing it but why do gangs of football fans when they are following their team abroad somewhere think they have a license to rob, steal and vandalise? They didn't ban football when the Heysel disaster led to the deaths of 39. Nor should we say immigration is to blame. Many will be saying that and many more sympathising with it. I would look more into who the ringleaders were if it was on me. We are all vulnerable to being influenced but especially at a certain age if joining a gang of sorts is all that is left to you in terms of a network.

I'm stretching my brainpower just to write that much. Its quite a hard question so I hope I didn't talk too much shite.
 
bimble said:
Oh good lord. Do you think that degrees in this subject done at Sussex & Goldsmiths don't spend at least 4 years deconstructing your very pencil case?
And I'm not British, I'm just a londoner.
But still, call me a racist but... rape culture is worse in india than in the UK. ok?
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Terminological inexactitude.:p
Rape culture isn't worse in India - rape culture is equally horrible and equally embedded wherever it happens (which is everywhere) - it is, however more prevalent using comparable measures.
 
frogwoman said:
I can't see a good outcome to this at all. I think its similar to what bernie gunther said, people only seeing one cause and shouting at people who see a slightly different cause to these events.
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There are no good outcomes but I think that the seeming entrenchment of fantastical ideas about causes from the German state and others (it's an ISIS/far-right conspiracy) and the desire to awkwardly force the horrific events within the context of wider Western sexism and misogynist violence are going to ensure a repeat and I would not be surprised if the end result isn't a cycle of violence. I hope that I am wrong, but I fear that I am not.
 
Bernie Gunther said:
Thanks for that. I'm still a bit suspicious of some of the cop stuff. That story about the guy ripping up his papers and saying 'Mrs Merkel invited me' just sounds like racist cop bullshit to me, but in general that seemed like a pretty well balanced summary from a number of viewpoints.

It's interesting that by that account the story has been driven by the far right from the beginning, where they picked an eye witness account up from a now vanished post on the Cologne equivalent of Craig's List and started yelling about media cover ups.
Click to expand...

The far-right were the only ones publicising the events for days (another of the many echoes of Rotherham, Rochdale etc), given that context I'm not sure we can rubbish reports based on their providence.
 
J Ed said:
Is that really the case? Was the previous assumption that it was non-Muslims or an assortment of Muslims and others and so a mass rape gang of 1000 in one city and several hundreds in others was not a big deal so it wasn't reported or was it a deliberate intention of the police and the media to cover up a horrific story in the hope that doing so would not further fray already very difficult community relations?
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I think there's more to it than community relations. There's political reputations at stake too . The establishment covered up for the establishment .
 
Bernie Gunther said:
It's also equally clear though that there are no countries where such harassment (and getting the cops to take it seriously) is not a significant problem.
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I have a friend in Argentina. Last year there was a massive demo protesting about male violence.


The main march was to the congress in the capital city of Buenos Aires, where I and the other female organisers were astounded at the size of the crowd. Groups of women from outside the city arrived bearing photos of their relatives, slain victims of femicide. Some of them yelled their disappointment at the failure of the police and the courts to respond adequately. “I don’t want you to tell me how to dress,” read one of the handwritten placards.
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J Ed said:
The far-right were the only ones publicising the events for days (another of the many echoes of Rotherham, Rochdale etc), given that context I'm not sure we can rubbish reports based on their providence.
Click to expand...

I'm not suggesting that multiple victim and eye witness accounts be ignored because they were being promoted by racist loons with an agenda.

I'm merely commenting that racist loons have been running with this one very hard. It's a fantastic wedge issue for all kinds of unsavoury types.
 
Humberto said:
Gangs of lads, young and very stupid pissed up on new years eve in a semi riot? To then write off a whole section of society as backwards woman hating thugs? I'm not necessarily saying anyone has done that here. I don't know if many of them were youths possibly without much of a support base letting off steam and causing mayhem as opposed to an organised contingent of supposedly grown men. I think it does make a difference.

I wonder how much of an "its them backward Muslims to blame" angle there is going to be? Rather than young men without parents or a family network going on a robbery and assault binge? I'm not excusing it but why do gangs of football fans when they are following their team abroad somewhere think they have a license to rob, steal and vandalise? They didn't ban football when the Heysel disaster led to the deaths of 39. Nor should we say immigration is to blame. Many will be saying that and many more sympathising with it. I would look more into who the ringleaders were if it was on me. We are all vulnerable to being influenced but especially at a certain age if joining a gang of sorts is all that is left to you in terms of a network.

I'm stretching my brainpower just to write that much. Its quite a hard question so I hope I didn't talk too much shite.
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Bake them a fucking cake while your at it.

Semi riot, gang of lads my arse, it was a deliberate predatory spree. A rape and molestation spree by a co ordinated bunch of predators .
 
ViolentPanda said:
There isn't an "inability" to talk about it without being a racist.
What there is, is the hegemony of a commentariat who will self-interestedly label such debate as "racist" for their reasons.
Those reasons are, as always, centred around the perpetuation of a middle class, middle-brow, liberalistic gloss to actual events, regardless of "real-world" causes and effects.
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This.

And also this for any who may have missed it.

irf520 said

The so-called "left" have forgotten their original purpose of improving the lot of the average person on the street and got sidetracked down the "calculus of oppression" rabbit hole whereby some people are automatically assumed to be more "worthy" than others, not on account of any individual merit, but simply on account of being in a certain "oppressed" category. In this case those thought/assumed to be the perpetrators are in multiple "oppressed" categories - immigrant, ethnic minority, muslim, and so they must be more "worthy" than an ordinary native woman. So they couldn't possibly be guilty of this crime. The cognitive dissonance is huge.
 
Bernie Gunther said:
I'm not suggesting that multiple victim and eye witness accounts be ignored because they were being promoted by racist loons with an agenda.

I'm merely commenting that racist loons have been running with this one very hard. It's a fantastic wedge issue for all kinds of unsavoury types.
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The victims of this thing are starting to sound like an inconvenience
 
littlebabyjesus said:
'You're fleeing the war in Syria, you say? Well just hold on here, we need to get the Syrian authorities to do a crb check on you first.'

'What? Yes, those authorities. The ones you're running away from, that's right.'
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Because you say "your fleeing from Syria" it doesnt mean you actually are. Many take advantage of the problems there (or other countries experiencing issues) as they think it would be easier to gain access to another country. Its not like they are carrying ID is it? So surely some checks should have to be made.
 
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