Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Hundreds of women assaulted in German NYE celebrations

Crumbs, I have clearly awakened the kraken

Do excuse the amateur psychology of my previous post. I suppose the thing is I don't recognise the accusation as being me. It does make me very angry to be accused of being a racist. I work with people on the lowest rung of society and I know how appalling the housing situation is, I know the damage of social isolation and also the tension and anxiety of a lot of people in this country about large flows of people. The topic is extremely upsetting and painful on an emotional level.

As any psychologist could tell you (and I'll do so gratis), the reason you don't "recognise the accusation" is because you're not an outsider looking in neutrally, you're someone using language to make your point precisely without considering how it might be read by others. That signifies one of three things:
1) That you don't care that your post may be offensive.
2) That you're very clumsy in your language use because of poor understanding of language use, or
3) Because you are indeed a racist.

To be called a racist is a very hurtful insult, it makes me very angry and makes me really utterly loathe the awful liberals set, that humiliates people with the accusation of racism if they raise the topic of immigration.

It's only hurtful if the insult can be made to stick. If you're confident that your arguments hold water, and you're able to substantiate them, then the label WON'T stick.

In my post I don't make arguments, I share my thoughts and try to highlight things of interest.

In other words, you're making arguments - setting forth points etc.

I would urge you to stop being an unappointed policeman seeing as your heroic duty to pounce on any dissent from what you to be the correct way.

I'm not pouncing on "any dissent". People (even Casually Red ffs) have made decent arguments that while I don't agree with them, are possible interpretations of events. Your posts, on the other hand, are just you using those events to reiterate your opinions on immigration - opinions you were rightly pulled up for on at least one previous thread.

I want to have the right for this country to be self interested, why do you assume that any young black man, black woman, person of Asian descent, someone who originated from Pakistan or India would not also be concerned as I am by dwindling social resources being divvied up further amongst more needy people.

I don't make any such assumption, but I would note that structurally the opinions of British Asians and Black Britons have less traction than those of white Britons.

I hate trendy causes in which so many people find it easier to have compassion and help those we know nothing about, than to help homeless people we step over on our way to work.

Speak for yourself. For some of us, our compassion isn't selective, and we help people wherever and whenever we can. It's called "solidarity".

Finally if what I write is terrible, ill-conceived stupid, prejudiced, then is that not self evident? Why do you need to point out. Is it not better to speak freely, exactly how one feels rather than be false and be accused by bullies of being a racist?

You're mistaking a supposed right to free speech with a personal right to say what you like, however foolish, inflammatory or ignorant it is. We all have a right to speak freely, but it only extends as far as that. There's no licence to offend without being taken to task for the offence given.

If you tell me what I write sounds racist I accept that it sounds racist but I would urge you to stop thinking like that, I'd like all people already in the UK to be more self interested and be very careful to avoid the situation that is happening in Germany.

Thus showing that you're still missing the point.
 
I read that fucking article today and nearly fucking vomited. I'm not going to read it again.

Why?
Could you explain why it made you want to puke please?
I know who she is and on a day to day basis she does my head in but I think this is really good.
Where is the pukey bit ?

"So let me be clear: sexual violence is never, ever acceptable. Not for cultural reasons. Not for religious reasons. Not because the perpetrators are really angry and disenfranchised. There can be no quarter for systemic misogyny. And if we’re serious about that, there’s not a country or culture on earth that won’t have to take a long, hard look at itself. I stand with the many, many Muslim, Arab, Asian and immigrant feminists organising against sexism and misogyny within and beyond their own communities. Nobody seems to have thought to ask them how best to deal with systemic sexual violence - even though attacks on Muslim women have increased since the terrorist attacks in Paris last year.

The sensible thing to do in response to the Cologne attacks would be to call, as many German feminists are doing, for a far more rigorous attitude to rape and sexual assault across Europe. Instead, the solution on the table seems to be to clamp down on migration. That fits in with the shibboleth that only savage, foreign men and hardened criminals rape and abuse women - despite the fact that most rapes, in Germany and elsewhere, are committed by people known to the victim, and migrants have not been shown to be more or less sexually aggressive than any other group. As usual, white supremacist patriarchy only concerns itself with women’s safety and women’s dignity when rape and sexual assault can be pinned on cultural ‘outsiders’.

Saying ‘sexism is also part of Western culture’ does not mean that the experience of women in the West is exactly the same as the experience of women in Middle Eastern dictatorships and war zones. Do you know why that is? Can you guess? It’s because the world is not divided into ‘things that are exactly the same as each other’ and ‘things that are total opposites.’

I actually can’t believe I’m having to explain this right now. I thought we covered this in kindergarten. Those of us who have moved beyond that level can, if we really try hard, understand that it’s not either ‘sexism is exclusively practised by Muslim men’ and ‘sexism is exactly the same everywhere.’ This is what we call a ‘false dichotomy’ when we get to big-kid school.

The oppression of women is a global phenomenon because patriarchy is a global phenomenon. It’s embedded in the economic and social structures of almost every nation and community on earth. Sexism and misogyny, however, look different across boundaries of culture and religion, as well as across divides of race and class and between generations. This is not a complicated thing to understand. I’m really trying not to be patronising. But a lot of people are behaving like vicious children over this issue, so if you’re not one of them, I hope you understand why right now I wish I could put half the Internet on time out in a nice safe room where they can scream and break things without hurting themselves or anyone else."
 
Last edited:
Yeah the way every man and his dog (and it almost always is a man) jumping on this to push a hobby horse is just gross

It's been going on for a while, but there are occasional female participants.

A NATION CHALLENGED: THE FIRST LADY; Mrs. Bush Cites Women's Plight Under Taliban

BBC News | UK POLITICS | Cherie Blair attacks Taleban 'cruelty'

Notice how both 'first ladies' were pushing the same story about ripped out fingernails to sell the same war at the same time.
 
In a way it's great that the attacks happened because they have allowed Laurie Penny to prove that she isn't racist.

What fucks me off too is the way they yet again break ths down into sections, the way these leftyintersectional wankers atomise society. Something they have in common with neo liberals . Like this just affects asylum seekers and women ...it's totally compartmentalised and everyone else is just left as unconnected bystanders. Who should just shut up . They've no right to be angry .

This affects everyone. This was not just an assault on women but an attack on a way of life, a peoples lifestyle . That women had to bear the brunt of .
The security measures that will have to be brought in to protect women from mass predatory assault will affect everyone . everyone's freedom will suffer , everyone's sense of security is shaken by this. Everyone's way of life will now be altered in a negative fashion . Cities, towns, communities .

These people live in a closeted fucking echo chamber.
 
It's been going on for a while, but there are occasional female participants.

A NATION CHALLENGED: THE FIRST LADY; Mrs. Bush Cites Women's Plight Under Taliban

BBC News | UK POLITICS | Cherie Blair attacks Taleban 'cruelty'

Notice how both 'first ladies' were pushing the same story about ripped out fingernails to sell the same war at the same time.

Taliban now control the same amount of land they did in 2001.

Im not sure the situation is the same though tbh
 
It's been going on for a while, but there are occasional female participants.

A NATION CHALLENGED: THE FIRST LADY; Mrs. Bush Cites Women's Plight Under Taliban

BBC News | UK POLITICS | Cherie Blair attacks Taleban 'cruelty'

Notice how both 'first ladies' were pushing the same story about ripped out fingernails to sell the same war at the same time.

It's especially piss boiling when you consider the Taliban only got into power because of Western support. Now they suddenly decide they don't like them after all. Bastards.
 
Are there that many daesh supporters in cologne?

We don't know.
That, as they say, is part of the problem.
Not that most perpetrators would necessarily need to be "supporters" in order to do something that benefited daesh. All that need happen is that a relative handful of supporters sow the seeds.
 
Why?
Could you explain why it made you want to puke please?

Ok, so let's start with the title. The very idea of "bigots stealing feminism" is crap. Feminism is about the emancipation of women, I doubt may bigots would want to steal that movement. Most bigots tend to be anti-women.

Added to that the whole article was a self-fellating say-nothing, aside from "don't be racist guys". No practical solutions were offered, there was no focus on the victims of the attack who she basically ignored to push her particular version of intersectionality.

/vom
 
We don't know.
That, as they say, is part of the problem.
Not that most perpetrators would necessarily need to be "supporters" in order to do something that benefited daesh. All that need happen is that a relative handful of supporters sow the seeds.

I could be wrong but i have real problems believing it was daesh tbh, it's too 'subtle'. Might 'just' have been criminal gangs who have been doing similar scale stuff for years plus a few recently arrived hangers on.
 
Taliban now control the same amount of land they did in 2001.

Im not sure the situation is the same though tbh

Well, I'm pretty sure the situation hasn't significantly improved for women in Afghanistan, but I can recall the fingernail story getting a lot of play at the time and having a similar effect to this one as a wedge issue against opponents of the War on Terror.
 
Pinning it on daesh is too easy, daesh members and those in contact of them are a tiny fraction of the population whereas we all know that sexist rape-supporting attitudes are far more widely accepted among a far bigger proportion of people from whatever cultural background, including german, than daesh membership and beliefs are.
 
This.

And also this for any who may have missed it.

irf520 said

The so-called "left" have forgotten their original purpose of improving the lot of the average person on the street and got sidetracked down the "calculus of oppression" rabbit hole whereby some people are automatically assumed to be more "worthy" than others, not on account of any individual merit, but simply on account of being in a certain "oppressed" category. In this case those thought/assumed to be the perpetrators are in multiple "oppressed" categories - immigrant, ethnic minority, muslim, and so they must be more "worthy" than an ordinary native woman. So they couldn't possibly be guilty of this crime. The cognitive dissonance is huge.

there is a hierarchy of oppression on the left, no matter how many times i am shouted down for stating this, I will still argue it.
 
I could be wrong but i have real problems believing it was daesh tbh, it's too 'subtle'. Might 'just' have been criminal gangs who have been doing similar scale stuff for years plus a few recently arrived hangers on.

Dunno if it's worth speculating who, if anyone, was behind this. Best cross that bridge when we find out (if we ever do).
 
Because you say "your fleeing from Syria" it doesnt mean you actually are. Many take advantage of the problems there (or other countries experiencing issues) as they think it would be easier to gain access to another country. Its not like they are carrying ID is it? So surely some checks would have to be made.

Let's be clear. The actual syrians as opposed to the ones with fake passports passing themselves off as syrian have fled Syria already. And since then passed through a host of non warring countries in order to get to Germany . The fleeing bit was dispensed with quite some time previous . The reason so many are going there is because the merkel regime has invited them . Without being able to cope with the real world results of their arrival . After repeatedly dismissing all talk of that actually being the case .

It appears it was the case after all . And now Germans will just have to put up with it and live in a fractured and increasingly dangerous society. And the slack will have to be taken up with enhanced day to day security measures. Which will affect everyone .
 
I could be wrong but i have real problems believing it was daesh tbh, it's too 'subtle'. Might 'just' have been criminal gangs who have been doing similar scale stuff for years plus a few recently arrived hangers on.
if that lot wanted and had near on a hundred people ready to do some evil bidding they wouldn't be robbing and sexually assualting tourists and party goers would they. They'd be blowing shit up and doing gun massacres using those troops.
 
Pinning it on daesh is too easy, daesh members and those in contact of them are a tiny fraction of the population whereas we all know that sexist rape-supporting attitudes are far more widely accepted among a far bigger proportion of people from whatever cultural background, including german, than daesh membership and beliefs are.

Most of the evidence at the moment is pointing pretty squarely at local pickpocket / street crime gangs, with a significant North African membership, that have been operating in those cities for several years according to various credible sources (see J Ed's link above) and whose MO includes swarming women and using sexual intimidation.

Presumably not any sort of devout muslims though given the alcohol consumption reported.

I've seen zero convincing evidence that anything beyond a sort of criminal flash mob happened in terms of organisation.

Although obviously the Gates of Vienna crowd see things differently.
 
Last edited:
I personally very much doubt that any of these rapists are active Daesh supporters.

Who said anything about active support? Passive support can manifest truly awful effects too, from acceptance of a "party line", to sticking some money in the collection tin, to turning a blind eye, to colluding for your own benefit.
 
Well, I'm pretty sure the situation hasn't significantly improved for women in Afghanistan, but I can recall the fingernail story getting a lot of play at the time and having a similar effect to this one as a wedge issue against opponents of the War on Terror.

So what are you saying? That this is more war on terror type propaganda? Not having a go, i genuinely dont understand your point. Given that it shows the police in a terrible light (either as incompetent lying twats or racist incompetent lying twats) im not sure that it is tbh. Obviously the far right have been drawn to it like flies on shit but they were with rochdale, bullfinch, ritherham and even the savile/bbc paedo stuff, which has all turned out to be true
 
if that lot wanted and had near on a hundred people ready to do some evil bidding they wouldn't be robbing and sexually assualting tourists and party goers would they. They'd be blowing shit up and doing gun massacres using those troops.

Exactly. If they really had hundreds of ppl in the square in new years would they have really have done something that only came to light five days later?
 
I could be wrong but i have real problems believing it was daesh tbh, it's too 'subtle'. Might 'just' have been criminal gangs who have been doing similar scale stuff for years plus a few recently arrived hangers on.

That's quite possible too.
We shouldn't, IMO, write off daesh because this seems too subtle. That can sometimes be worse than wishful thinking. As soon as one party to a war decides that the other side couldn't be responsible for something because it's "not their style", they've effectively given the other side a route through which to effect an awful amount of damage on them (as George Custer found out).
 
Pinning it on daesh is too easy, daesh members and those in contact of them are a tiny fraction of the population whereas we all know that sexist rape-supporting attitudes are far more widely accepted among a far bigger proportion of people from whatever cultural background, including german, than daesh membership and beliefs are.

Well, as I said many pages ago, you could as easily hang this on the Germano-Turkish right, as on the headcutters.
 
Back
Top Bottom