Hundreds of women assaulted in German NYE celebrations

[bimble]

There's a couple of reactions here, maybe three. One, downplay it like some absurd headbangers have. Other, the rightist crow of 'I told you so' and making hay from it. or a third, frantically line up with the right in their 'culture war' line in order to avoid looking like some total lefty flake. I'm not buying either of them.

This is what makes me feel so despairing, what you've just said. The complete inability to talk about it without being "a racist". I don't understand how we got to this, and I studied anthropology at Goldsmiths FFS, although admittedly before "intersectionality" was everything.

 

[ruffneck23]

I keep wondering about this. Lots of cities in Europe were expecting some kind of attack over the Christmas period. ISIS clearly have quite a few followers in these major cities. What a great way to turn Western countries against the people fleeing the region and force them back into the arms of the Caliphate. It is starting to look like these events were organized, not just coincidental.

Thats exactly what I've been thinking, I hope I'm wrong

 

[DotCommunist]

Great. Just tick 'none of the above' then and look away now.

why would I do that? An injury to one is an injury to all. Think 'reactions' as in terms of 'ill thought out thundering from the usual quarters'. Reactionary. Because thats what the attempts to paint these vile atacks as a culture led problem is.
You see at times like this even people who recognize that there is a vast diversity of attitudes and personal mores in a given society are prone to join in the clarion call to cry that 'its thier disrespectful culture' or even mewlingly worse 'they don't know any better'.

nonsense. And if these minority of shitheads had played a similar tactic in their own stable, unbombed society they'd be hoping to find jail before the family of the victim finds them. As they should be in germany.

 

[DotCommunist]

I studied anthropology at Goldsmiths

this makes a lot of sense now

 

[Pickman's model]

This is what makes me feel so despairing, what you've just said. The complete inability to talk about it without being "a racist". I don't understand how we got to this, and I studied anthropology at Goldsmiths FFS.

why do you think an anthropology degree would help you here?

 

[Pickman's model]

this makes a lot of sense now

not really, i know people who studied anthropology who make sense.

 

[bimble]

why do you think an anthropology degree would help you here?

It was more the Goldsmiths embarrassing laminated rosette of absurd right-on ness that I was thinking of, seeing as I seem to be a racist here.
But it actually looks like people here are denying that such a thing as "culture" even exists,if that 'culture' may be full of stuff that we don't like.

 

[xenon]

surely more likely there were three men coordinating the gangs of pickpockets/thieves... the abuse (though horrific) is probably secondary to the aim of stealing for them

I doubt this was any form of 'terror attack' or a coordinated mass groping of women - if there was any coordination then it was surely for the purpose of stealing from vulnerably drunk people and the sexual assaults happened during the process of relieveing people of their posessions

Except reportedly, at least some of those involved had translated notes conveying sexual threats.

 

[bimble]

this makes a lot of sense now

How so? Please explain. That I chose such a racist subject to study , right?

 

[bimble]

And if these minority of shitheads had played a similar tactic in their own stable, unbombed society they'd be hoping to find jail before the family of the victim finds them. As they should be in germany.

I wish that was true. When a less depressing day comes around, do try to watch India's Daughter.

 

[Pickman's model]

It was more the Goldsmiths embarrassing laminated rosette of absurd right-on ness that I was thinking of, seeing as I seem to be a racist here.
But it actually looks like people here are denying that such a thing as "culture" even exists, sometimes, when that culture may be full of stuff that we don't like.

answer me this: did you embody all of british culture when you were say 25? or had you just adopted some bits of it and maybe opted out of other bits, or would you say there is no "british culture" but regional and class cultures which people adopt to varying extents - or a more complex picture entirely?

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Just as a matter of basic logic, this conclusion...

It is starting to look like these events were organized, not just coincidental.

...does not follow from these premises.

Lots of cities in Europe were expecting some kind of attack over the Christmas period. ISIS clearly have quite a few followers in these major cities. What a great way to turn Western countries against the people fleeing the region and force them back into the arms of the Caliphate.

 

[Pickman's model]

Just as a matter of basic logic, this conclusion...



...does not follow from these premises.

yeh but gc's posts should be heard as a raspberry and passed over.

 

[bimble]

answer me this: did you embody all of british culture when you were say 25? or had you just adopted some bits of it and maybe opted out of other bits, or would you say there is no "british culture" but regional and class cultures which people adopt to varying extents - or a more complex picture entirely?

Oh good lord. Do you think that degrees in this subject done at Sussex & Goldsmiths don't spend at least 4 years deconstructing your very pencil case?
And I'm not British, I'm just a londoner.
But still, call me a racist but... rape culture is worse in india than in the UK. ok?

 

[DotCommunist]

How so? Please explain. That I chose such a racist subject to study , right?

no, just Goldsmiths graduates, usually all the gear and no idea. Pre intersectionalism or otherwise.

nobody is calling racist, and thats precisely where you run the risk of lining up with the right. In order for them to deligitamise critiscisms of their racist critiques they have to paint the people calling their bullshit as flaky lefties who would support anything and defend anything so long as it is percieved to be defending the refugees. This isn't the case is it?

 

[Pickman's model]

Oh good lord. Do you think that degrees in this subject done at Sussex & Goldsmiths don't spend at least 4 years deconstructing your very pencil case?
And I'm not British, I'm just a londoner.
But still, call me a racist but... rape culture is worse in india than in the UK. ok?

what's the point in your degree/s if you can't answer relatively simple questions about culture?

 

[bimble]

what's the point in your degree/s if you can't answer relatively simple questions about culture?

No idea what the point of my degrees are tbh.
I am seemingly alone here in saying that such a thing as culture even exists though, with varying degrees of the likelihood of being raped by strangers in the street, on a bus etc depending on where in the world you live. cos like that's raacist.

 

[toggle]

It's pretty clear that there are some places which are safer than others.

Statistics - Academic and Community Studies | Stop Street Harassment

I don't think anyone here would argue otherwise (would they?)

It's also equally clear though that there are no countries where such harassment is not a significant problem.

there's at least one person on their soapbox on this thread who has a history of using issues surrounding harassment of women to promote an agenda that it isn't such a problem in their country, other than the poor immigrants.

 

[bimble]

no, just Goldsmiths graduates, usually all the gear and no idea. Pre intersectionalism or otherwise.

nobody is calling racist, and thats precisely where you run the risk of lining up with the right. In order for them to deligitamise critiscisms of their racist critiques they have to paint the people calling their bullshit as flaky lefties who would support anything and defend anything so long as it is perceived to be defending the refugees. This isn't the case is it?

Is it not? I really hope not.
The biggest problem resulting from NYE does seem to be exactly that though:
The (accusations of a) coverup by police, state & media of the women's testimony in order to prevent anti-refugee feeling.

 

[Greebozz]

Because, of course, there's no pressure in the west to deprive women of rights, or to deny them rights.

The reason you "find it difficult to know what to do" is because rather than trying to analyse the issues as neutrally as possible, many of your "arguments" on this thread have proceeded from a perception that white skin = okay, brown skin = cunts.

I think you're being unfair, didn't we touch on this earlier in the thread about people editing reality on their head so they can be nasty and feel justified. I suspect you feel slightly heroic and noble by delivering a righteous smack down. You've even got a few lickspittles and grimer wormtongues liking your post.

If you've ever read a legal terms and condition will notice it page after page of text required to cover every angle obviously on a forum no one's got the time or energy to do that.

To choose the worst possible interpretation of what I've said, does not impress me. Other than to a few of your forum pals I think it looks bad as well. I do appreciate you are forum royalty and I don't mean to cause offence.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I keep wondering about this. Lots of cities in Europe were expecting some kind of attack over the Christmas period. ISIS clearly have quite a few followers in these major cities. What a great way to turn Western countries against the people fleeing the region and force them back into the arms of the Caliphate. It is starting to look like these events were organized, not just coincidental.

Have you got links to evidence for that? Organisation on any level beyond that of local criminal gangs?

It's an interesting speculation and one that crossed my mind too, but I can't see anything that looks like compelling evidence for it.

I'm not saying it couldn't happen of course, but I do think a lot of unpleasant agendas might be well-served by making claims along those lines (the Gates of Vienna crowd are already really very excited about precisely that sort of scenario), so I'm keen to see some robust evidence for any theories like that.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I think...

I'm not convinced that you do.

...you're being unfair, didn't we touch on this earlier in the thread about people editing reality on their head so they can be nasty and feel justified. I suspect you feel slightly heroic and noble by delivering a righteous smack down. You've even got a few lickspittles and grimer wormtongues liking your post.

It's "Grima", and calling people names because they like posts that oppose your puerile arguments is...puerile.

If you've ever read a legal terms and condition will notice it page after page of text required to cover every angle obviously on a forum no one's got the time or energy to do that.

To obviously choose the worst possible interpretation of what I've said, does not impress me. Other than to a few of your forum pals I thing it looks bad as well. I do appreciate you are forum royalty and I don't mean to cause offence.

You're a dolt.
You take even the mildest criticism of your posts - some of which are frankly racist bollocks - as being an attack on you, who is only nobly speaking his mind. Here's the thing: Racists have been using that particular manouevre in debate for at least the last 130 years.

There is no "editing" of "reality", just straightforward textual analysis of what you've written. It's not about feeling "heroic" or "noble", it's about not letting someone get away with talking shite.

No-one is asking you to make your posts conditional on reams of clauses and sub-clauses. I am asking you to recognise the most obvious way your posts can be read - the way anyone "neutral" who was otherwise unaware of your output, would read them.

I respect posters who present a decent argument contra my own. I don't respect you because in all the time you've posted here, I've never seen you make a decent argument, just utterly quotidian generalisations - the sort of 6th-form rubbish it's impossible to respect.

 

[Sasaferrato]

It's not a fucking competition.

But the more extreme claims, from the 'we're with Enoch'-types like Casually Red and Greebozz, that Europe has been changed for women for ever, and it was madness to let them in, are treating it as such, and acting as if these were the main issues facing women in Europe today. They're not and that's worth saying.

This thread is making me fucking sick.

Surely you must recognise that this is a hell of a gamble for Germany? The logistics of seeing to the welfare of a million people, is a major operation. Bear in mind also that the costs of East Germany are still ongoing.

 

[Sasaferrato]

I'm not convinced that you do.



It's "Grima", and calling people names because they like posts that oppose your puerile arguments is...puerile.



You're a dolt.
You take even the mildest criticism of your posts - some of which are frankly racist bollocks - as being an attack on you, who is only nobly speaking his mind. Here's the thing: Racists have been using that particular manouevre in debate for at least the last 130 years.

There is no "editing" of "reality", just straightforward textual analysis of what you've written. It's not about feeling "heroic" or "noble", it's about not letting someone get away with talking shite.

No-one is asking you to make your posts conditional on reams of clauses and sub-clauses. I am asking you to recognise the most obvious way your posts can be read - the way anyone "neutral" who was otherwise unaware of your output, would read them.

I respect posters who present a decent argument contra my own. I don't respect you because in all the time you've posted here, I've never seen you make a decent argument, just utterly quotidian generalisations - the sort of 6th-form rubbish it's impossible to respect.

 

[DotCommunist]

Is it not? I really hope not.
The biggest problem resulting from NYE does seem to be exactly that though:
The (accusations of a) coverup by police, state & media of the women's testimony in order to prevent anti-refugee feeling.

what a poor job they are doing of such a cover up then. More likely its right wing foghorns pulling out statements from dafties (official dafties or otherwise) in order to go on the 'oh look, we musn't say that, the left would turn their face from this, look they are weak and foolish'. And then getting press coverage.
In the scramble to go 'no I'm not condoning rape or sexual assault! Not like those trotskyists prats (or whoever just an eg)!' you end up with this unedifying spectacle of people lining up to condemn rape like they never have before and earnestly joining in the rights culture war debate. Its a blind alley and you've been led right up it.

 

[ViolentPanda]

How about doing it the other way round then. Set aside existing areas here (like Milton Keynes or Bracknell) for the sole purpose of housing displaced people and surround it with troops to keep them in?

No-one deserves Milton Keynes!!!

 

[ViolentPanda]

I called him a dolt because his posts on this thread ooze doltishness.
He went in for name-calling because he didn't like the fact that a handful of people had "liked" the post he was responding to. Slight difference.

 

[Pickman's model]

No-one deserves Milton Keynes!!!

it's the least ids and dc deserve

 

[frogwoman]

Just as a matter of basic logic, this conclusion...



...does not follow from these premises.

I don't think ISIS were involved here at all. Don't think there's a simple explanation like that. Which makes it worse.

 

[Spymaster]

it's the least ids and dc deserve

DotCommunist isn't that bad.