Hundreds of women assaulted in German NYE celebrations

[ruffneck23]

It seems these weren't opportunists, this was a well planned out attack on not only German citizens but also other cities in Europe , this is what worries me

If the internet is to be believed anyways

 

[Bernie Gunther]

A few things that haven't been touched on much above.

Accounts of similar things happening or nearly happening in other European cities on NYE. (Is this bullshit or was there really some degree of organisation? Purely criminal or some political dimensions?)

Refactoring patterns of criminal behaviour observed elsewhere into something unprecedented: swarming behaviour, distraction tactics etc.

There are suggestions that ethnic gangs have been using similar tactics on a smaller scale in other European cities. (I've seen some of this, invasion of personal space as a distraction for a robbery attempt, near Copenhagen station a couple of years ago, so I find that plausible. Although I've seen scallies doing similar back home, so there's nothing inherently 'ethnic' about it.) The word that keeps cropping up in German accounts is 'Antänzer' which I think is referring to the tactic rather than the gangs.

There have been large scale criminal swarms (typically armed with something a bit more serious than fireworks) in other places. There were a couple of fairly spectacular cases in Brazil a decade or so ago, where the objective seems to have been to test and if possible overwhelm the abilities of law enforcement to respond.

It appears that the German cops were completely wrong-footed by the scale of the swarm, the fireworks and the nature of the assaults and hence that at least on this particular night, the state monopoly on force was shown to be clueless and helpless.

Some counter-terrorist pundits are very likely working right now on papers linking this stuff to the Paris attacks etc. Some of the Gates of Vienna types likewise.

 

[Gramsci]

Eastern Europe bristles after Cologne | Europe | DW.COM | 09.01.2016


Nobody could have predicted this.

Only 9 days into 2016 ffs

Does not surprise me. Heard a Polish politician from the ruling government ( the Law and Justice party who are Catholic nationalists) complaining about having to take muslim refugees on radio. As Poland no experience of muslims. Historically wrong. Muslims were in Poland centuries ago. I have Polish friend who has Islamic first name. Asked him why and he is descended from Tatars who came to Poland centuries ago. No longer practising muslims but keep the names.

However most East European countries have little experience of immigration post war that countries such as UK, France and Germany have.

The experience of East European countries is of war and occupation ( by Soviets) and being part of others Empires ( Hapsburg and Russian) So its only now that they have for the first time the chance to have there own societies and culture. Joining the EU was rejoining Europe for them.

What I am saying is that these attitudes pre dated Cologne. As the article says these East European countries were refusing to accept refugees anyway.

As for Poland. Some of my Polish friends left Poland partly because of the strength of the post communist conservative Catholic Nationalist party. They find multicultural London much more to there liking. So opposition to refugees can be for conservative reasons not about womens rights.

 

[likesfish]

Yet you keep banging on about western imperialism like it can be the only factor.
What about the cultural attitudes towards women of some of the perpetrators?
Did alcohol consumption for the first ever time in their lives play a part?

WW2 displaced millions of people yet nowhere was mass sexual assault a result.

er the red army says hi
Poland seems to be going through a rather odd phase of politics at best right wing lunacy at worst

 

[ruffneck23]

i think there is going to be a huge right wing surge coming very soon, if not ultra right.

if the ultra right get in , it wont be a matter of deportation any more

 

[Gramsci]

A few things that haven't been touched on much above.

There have been large scale criminal swarms (typically armed with something a bit more serious than fireworks) in other places. There were a couple of fairly spectacular cases in Brazil a decade or so ago, where the objective seems to have been to test and if possible overwhelm the abilities of law enforcement to respond.

Related but not quite the same over Christmas I started reading the South American writer Roberto Bolaño epic novel 2666

Was thinking of it earlier in relation to this thread.

He lived in exile from his native Chile due to the dictatorship.

2666 has a theme of violence and a factual case of violence against women. A town in north Mexico where women were being murdered in large numbers.

Only half way through ( its a doorstop of a novel).

He grew up in a South America where State and oppositional violence were everyday. So Bolano novel ( and other writings) is partly about the normalisation of violence in society. In this novel against women.

He lived in Mexico then Spain and became interested in the crime wave of murdered women in Mexico incorporating it into his imo psychological novel.

Mexico is a place where there is now a high level of violence due to drugs. But he is also looking at how people become accustomed to it. What this does to society and people.

 

[treelover]

Eh, Right across Europe mass rape occured, on both sides, but certainly more by the Russians as they fought to get to Berlin.

 

[Joe Reilly]

My main point was that the presence of refugees from the wars of Western imperialism in Europe is the result of the wars of Western imperialism. If that presence proves problematic, as the Cologne incidents suggests it may, then we see here an instance of "blowback," the unintended and unpleasant consequences of an aggressively imperialist foreign policy.

Nick Griffin was offering up a similar vista more than a decade ago. I'm not saying your analysis is wrong, but in the real world the only conclusion to be drawn would be a profoundly anti-immigrant/anti-immigration one.

 

[emanymton]

Don't know if this has been mentioned as I think I have missed some bits of the thread. But has there been any suggestion that the police dismissed the initial reports and didn't take them seriously. The police do not always deal with sex crimes well (look at Rochdale over hete) and it would not surprise me if assaults reported to them were dismissed as just a bit of grouping or something and not acting on or followed up in any way.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Don't know if this has been mentioned as I think I have missed some bits of the thread. But has there been any suggestion that the police dismissed the initial reports and didn't take them seriously. The police do not always deal with sex crimes well (look at Rochdale over hete) and it would not surprise me if assaults reported to them were dismissed as just a bit of grouping or something and not acting on or followed up in any way.

I've been reading some of the German reports (in translation, my German was never great and is now almost non-existent) and I do get that idea.

My impression is that they were predisposed towards seeing their role as breaking up drunken fights, concerned about fireworks from a pubic safety point of view and took a while to get their heads around what was happening and to take it seriously. Then when they did start taking it seriously, they didn't have a scooby how to handle the scale of the situation.

 

[pocketscience]

er the red army says hi

errr... I meant by the people that were displaced by the war. Not by the participants of the war...

 

[treelover]

Don't know if this has been mentioned as I think I have missed some bits of the thread. But has there been any suggestion that the police dismissed the initial reports and didn't take them seriously. The police do not always deal with sex crimes well (look at Rochdale over hete) and it would not surprise me if assaults reported to them were dismissed as just a bit of grouping or something and not acting on or followed up in any way.

There was something very strange in germany on NYE: Munich station had been closed, lots of anti terror police were on high alert, how could they not be ready for what happened at Cologne, this is a massive story with so many unknow unknowns and I do think with major consequences.

 

[treelover]

I've been reading some of the German reports (in translation, my German was never great and is now almost non-existent) and I do get that idea.

My impression is that they were predisposed towards seeing their role as breaking up drunken fights, concerned about fireworks from a pubic safety point of view and took a while to get their heads around what was happening and to take it seriously. Then when they did start taking it seriously, they didn't have a scooby how to handle the scale of the situation.

Looking at riot porn from Germany, these are a very efficient force, there must be something more.

 

[treelover]

Former English Defence League leader Tommy Robinson flew in to tell the crowd “Islam is a cancer, and Pegida is a cure”, earning shouts of approval when he urged his listeners “it is our God-given right and duty to protect our women. It’s what men do.”

Cologne protests over sex attacks: ‘I am full of sorrow for Germany’

Oh, apparently, global 'anti-jihad' superstar Tommy Robinson 'flew in' to address the Pegida crowds.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

If the police brass were all wound up about a terror alert, it may very well have distracted them from many actual citizens being terrorised.

 

[Greebozz]

That's quite an indictment of your opinion.

That is quite an indictment of your poor written comprehension skills.

 

[pocketscience]

There was something very strange in germany on NYE: Munich station had been closed, lots of anti terror police were on high alert, how could they not be ready for what happened at Cologne, this is a massive story with so many unknow unknowns and I do think with major consequences.

You can bet your life that if a mob of a thousands had been robbing a local rolex jewellery shop there'd have been a fuck ton of German OB all over it in seconds.
The question remains is why did the Polizei stand off?:
a)Were they too worried about the liberal sensitivities of the local politicians not to target people with the same ethic background as refugees? Well, that'd be a first - and totally out of character.
b) did they let it happen on purpose to play the media to drum up tougher immigration laws? Plausible IMO. The German Polizei Gewerschaftbund (pig union) have been very vocal about the refugee's for a while now and totally against Merkels policies.

 

[pocketscience]

If the police brass were all wound up about a terror alert, it may very well have distracted them from many actual citizens being terrorised.

Doesn't add up. The threat was "an imminent attack on a major train station". The mob were at a major train station. If they were looking for people with suicide bomb vests so hard that they missed the mass sexual assaults, then they're not fit for purpose. Sack the lot of them... either they fucked up massively or intended the outcome.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Well, I'm speculating here but you can sort of imagine a scenario where the guy who can call out the riot squad to deal with hundreds-strong somewhat organised gangs is in the 'situation room' and can't be disturbed by petty shit like women being sexually assaulted and robbed, meanwhile the plod on the streets aren't up for taking on anything more serious than a few drunks and are disinclined to do anything about it without specific orders (perhaps for reasons you allude to) and preferably support from the heavy mob.

 

[pocketscience]

Well, I'm speculating here but you can sort of imagine a scenario where the guy who can call out the riot squad to deal with hundreds-strong somewhat organised gangs is in the 'situation room' and can't be disturbed by petty shit like people being sexually assaulted and robbed, meanwhile the plod on the streets aren't tooled up for that sort of shit and are disinclined to do anything about it without the heavy mob.

Of course they're tooled up for that shit. All German OB are armed with pepper spray and REAL guns.
I've seen a lot of civil disorder in Germany and one thing that can't be said is that they aren't game to confront such situations. In fact, I'd go as far to say that if "ethnic minorities" are involved, they's be positively licking their lips at the opportunity to steam in.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Yeah hence my edit re 'tooled up'

I really don't see them opening fire on suspects mixed up in crowds of civilians though.

So if they felt they lacked the numbers and/or clear instructions to get stuck in ...

 

[pocketscience]

Well, I'm speculating here but you can sort of imagine a scenario where the guy who can call out the riot squad to deal with hundreds-strong somewhat organised gangs is in the 'situation room' and can't be disturbed by petty shit like women being sexually assaulted and robbed, meanwhile the plod on the streets aren't up for taking on anything more serious than a few drunks and are disinclined to do anything about it without specific orders (perhaps for reasons you allude to) and preferably support from the heavy mob.

A riot squad wouldn't have been necessary to have secured the area. A simple call by the "situation room" : "all hands on deck at the Hauptbahnhof" would have been enough.
But this was never made. It went on for 4 hours ffs...

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Yep. Which suggests to me some combination of a command structure with its head up it's arse and cops on the ground who didn't take the reports of sexual assaults seriously until someone realised it was making them look bad, very possibly while using 'we'll get in trouble with bleeding heart types if we do anything' as an excuse for their inaction.

I'm hypothesising again, but that seems to me to have been what happened in the Rochdale case. It wasn't that the cops actually believed they'd get in trouble for racial harassment if they started arresting Asian sex criminals, but rather that they didn't give a shit about what happened to vulnerable girls from sink estates, had in some cases, cosy relationships with the abusers and it seemed to them (as racist fuckwits) a nice line to trot out in self-justification for their inaction.

 

[pocketscience]

Yep. Which suggests to me some combination of a command structure with its head up it's arse and cops on the ground

Doesnt add up. They should have been on high alert

who didn't take the reports of sexual assaults seriously until someone realised it was making them look bad.

Doesnt add up. That was like, 4 days later!

 

[pocketscience]

pepper spray and real guns!
every german cop!
they're trained and paid (very well) to deal with this shit

 

[trashpony]

treelover mentioned it but not very clearly. The number of criminal complaints filed from women in Cologne alone has risen to 379.

I notice that the people who accused me of hyperbole in my thread title have gone very fucking quiet.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Yep. As you say though, if the gangs in question had been smashing up banks or something, I'm sure they'd have been right on the case.

 

[Pickman's model]

treelover mentioned it but not very clearly. The number of criminal complaints filed from women in Cologne alone has risen to 379.

I notice that the people who accused me of hyperbole in my thread title have gone very fucking quiet.

yeh they realise they were talking hyperbollocks

 

[Casually Red]

Don't know if this has been mentioned as I think I have missed some bits of the thread. But has there been any suggestion that the police dismissed the initial reports and didn't take them seriously. The police do not always deal with sex crimes well (look at Rochdale over hete) and it would not surprise me if assaults reported to them were dismissed as just a bit of grouping or something and not acting on or followed up in any way.

I think that's unlikely in this instance as one of their own female undercover officers was one of the earlier victims . And they couldn't even get to her .

 

[Casually Red]

Well, I'm speculating here but you can sort of imagine a scenario where the guy who can call out the riot squad to deal with hundreds-strong somewhat organised gangs is in the 'situation room' and can't be disturbed by petty shit like women being sexually assaulted and robbed, meanwhile the plod on the streets aren't up for taking on anything more serious than a few drunks and are disinclined to do anything about it without specific orders (perhaps for reasons you allude to) and preferably support from the heavy mob.

The cops are saying the federal police who usually deal with this heavier shit were all in Bavaria directing refugee access to the border . They simply weren't there to call on .